Education / Teaching thread (3 Viewers)

[guidomerkinsrules]

It's almost entirely a parenting issue... There are just as many rouge rich kids out there screwing up schools as their are working class poor kids... both lack basic home training and parenting (empathy, respect, motivation, emotional stability). Economics play a part to some degree in a parents' availability on both ends of the spectrum... but in the end it's the responsibility of the parent to raise their children - not the school system. Money don't fix bad non-existent parenting.... and Schools can't teach kids to be decent humans... nor should they be tasked with doing so.

1st the response to Sun and you was a consideration of the broader economics of education- that kid was not kept in the classroom after multiple assaults because of bad parenting
The breakdown between admin and teacher is a political/economic issue (not even an educational one)
We used to put these kids into institutions- and broadly those were horror shows - with plenty of kids who should not have been institutionalized but were anyway
So ‘we’ sought to fix that
Broadly the fix was teach both behavioral and developmental challenges in ‘regular’ classes just have additional help
Guess what usually happened to the funding for the extra help at the state level?
Evaporated like so many other social programs
And the mandate to keep the kids in regular school did not change
I’m sure we can all see the problem here…

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Now to the ‘bad parenting’ thing - it’s a ‘witch hunt’ type of argument
It’s a claim that’s easy to bludgeon people with and even provide ‘evidence’ for but you would be hard pressed to create a valid argument for what good/bad parenting would be outside of anecdotes or bromides

And the solution to bad parenting would probably be way worse what we have now - I can’t imagine anyone on this board would call for licensure for parenting- it’s one of those ideas that might seem good if you don’t think about it too hard but quickly becomes a totalitarian nightmare in practice

So like most things, the way to get the best results is not to punish the bad behavior but to create an incentive for good behavior- which brings us back to economics

 

[Infoman]

Incentive and consequences mean nothing to a kid that has never been taught to give a damn about either.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

Incentive and consequences mean nothing to a kid that has never been taught to give a damn about either.

Would you like to have a conversation or nah?

 

[Goatman Saint]

It's almost entirely a parenting issue... There are just as many rouge rich kids out there screwing up schools as their are working class poor kids... both lack basic home training and parenting (empathy, respect, motivation, emotional stability). Economics play a part to some degree in a parents' availability on both ends of the spectrum... but in the end it's the responsibility of the parent to raise their children - not the school system. Money don't fix bad non-existent parenting.... and Schools can't teach kids to be decent humans... nor should they be tasked with doing so.

Columbine was done by two very well off kids. The guy who killed a couple people at MSU years ago was well off also.

There are a lot of mental health issues at play. Problem is that as much as it’s talked about very little is actually done, or can be. There are kids walking all over which have major mental issues. I have 2 in my classes. But what can be done, really done to fix mental issues?

 

[bonnjer]

I think the main point I wanted to discuss from the link I shared on post #114 was this...

Lawsuit response: Pender school district says risks of injury are inherent to teaching job

The Pender County Schools district argues by accepting a job as a teacher, the plaintiff assumed risks associated with working in a classroom.

www.starnewsonline.com

Guys, if the courts set this precedent, who in the hell would want to stay in a classroom? Now this woman who got shot can try to sue, but it doesn't seem like she has much of a chance to win. How much more do teachers have to endure?

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I think the main point I wanted to discuss from the link I shared on post #114 was this...

Lawsuit response: Pender school district says risks of injury are inherent to teaching job

The Pender County Schools district argues by accepting a job as a teacher, the plaintiff assumed risks associated with working in a classroom.

www.starnewsonline.com

Guys, if the courts set this precedent, who in the hell would want to stay in a classroom? Now this woman who got shot can try to sue, but it doesn't seem like she has much of a chance to win. How much more do teachers have to endure?

Chuck can weigh in but I bet a pretty decent lawyer could win that
If weapons aren’t allowed in schools and if the school’s policy addresses student behavior I can’t see how that stands up

 

[Goatman Saint]

Well so far my week in education has been a wash out all week for Covid, my one young teacher I’m mentoring just caught Covid, her daughter is sick, and my previous girl I was mentoring ( former third grade student also) just lost her mom. On top of the job, lots of personal things also effect the situation.

 

[Goatman Saint]

I think the main point I wanted to discuss from the link I shared on post #114 was this...

Lawsuit response: Pender school district says risks of injury are inherent to teaching job

The Pender County Schools district argues by accepting a job as a teacher, the plaintiff assumed risks associated with working in a classroom.

www.starnewsonline.com

Guys, if the courts set this precedent, who in the hell would want to stay in a classroom? Now this woman who got shot can try to sue, but it doesn't seem like she has much of a chance to win. How much more do teachers have to endure?

I showed it to my wife, and she replied that as long as the district followed spelled out procedure they would be protected. Not that she completely agrees, but she believes in the end the school
District will win

 

[saintmdterps]

I showed it to my wife, and she replied that as long as the district followed spelled out procedure they would be protected. Not that she completely agrees, but she believes in the end the school
District will win

Getting bit by a student is one thing, getting shot is another. Neither is acceptable and should be covered by workers comp at the bare minimum.

The school allowed a student to enter with a gun, hence the school district should be liable. Does this mean metal detectors should be installed? Yes. Cuz 'murica and guns before people

 

[saintmdterps]

Sickening but not shocking. We've got kids that have literally brought weapons to school that won't be expelled because they have an IEP. This profession isn't just full of disrespect and stress, it's literally dangerous.

Also, I'll add this: admin is not your ally. Get along with then where you can but expect then to throw you under the bus asap if it benefits them. Be professional, but do not bend over backwards for them. They will screw you at the first available opportunity.

Absolutely true. Admin is not tenured, and so will lie to protect themselves. Admin will shoot itself in the foot by trying to dismiss special ed teachers. It's all about testing and state/federal funding related to testing. You lose special ed teachers, these kids don't make the grade and then funding is cut. However, admin can't make this simple connection, and fails to realize the board of ed will not protect them either. The following year the school is "reconstituted" and poor admins are moved to other schools where they continue to suck.

Very broken system and we're seeing the results. Working in healthcare and seeing the disrespect shown to nurses, therapists, and other employees, it's a wonder there's anyone left in schools and hospitals. We certainly don't get rich, and companies prey on our altruism. Eventually our altruism runs dry leaving us with a jaded bitter cynicism. I've seen it some of my staff who are in their 20's. It took me 15-20 years to get this jaded, they're on the fast track.

 

[saintmdterps]

This week has been excruciatingly long. Kicked it off with the storm system from hell, benchmark testing (forking waste of time) all week, and right before Christmas / end of semester so they're extra wild. Two more days next week and I pray for high absentee rates both days.

Teaching to the test is one of the true barriers to actually teaching. These testing companies bribe their way into school systems via state and federal legislators then the true educators are stuck with a curriculum that does not actually educate the children.

Same as healthcare, those at the top are not educators or clinicians, but rather bean counters and lobbyists who have no idea what is truly involved in education or health care. They sold their souls to the highest bidder.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

. However, admin can't make this simple connection, and fails to realize the board of ed will not protect them either.

I’ve no love for admin - in all my years I’ve had one good HS admin and one in college
And while it might seem that boards of Ed take the most feckless and burnt out core teachers and gives them a year of training to not directly answer questions and to play parents off of teachers; I don’t think that’s the case
Largely they do the (bad) job they are incentivized to do
Education may or may not happen in classes depending on the mix of students, teachers and material
But ‘schooling’ seems largely a matter of crowd/behavior control to varying degrees
And admins aren’t incentivized to fix problems (which would probably need money) they’re incentivized to make the problems go away, which usually means pushing them down hill and since currently teachers are on the lowest rung of the hierarchy of power (generally) the burden falls largely on teachers

 

[Goatman Saint]

Absolutely true. Admin is not tenured, and so will lie to protect themselves. Admin will shoot itself in the foot by trying to dismiss special ed teachers. It's all about testing and state/federal funding related to testing. You lose special ed teachers, these kids don't make the grade and then funding is cut. However, admin can't make this simple connection, and fails to realize the board of ed will not protect them either. The following year the school is "reconstituted" and poor admins are moved to other schools where they continue to suck.

Very broken system and we're seeing the results. Working in healthcare and seeing the disrespect shown to nurses, therapists, and other employees, it's a wonder there's anyone left in schools and hospitals. We certainly don't get rich, and companies prey on our altruism. Eventually our altruism runs dry leaving us with a jaded bitter cynicism. I've seen it some of my staff who are in their 20's. It took me 15-20 years to get this jaded, they're on the fast track.

Having a wife that was admin at site level, now at District Office, and more than a few friends that are admin I take absolute offense to this and will tap out on this thread now so I don’t go off on a bannable rant.

 

[saintmdterps]

Having a wife that was admin at site level, now at District Office, and more than a few friends that are admin I take absolute offense to this and will tap out on this thread now so I don’t go off on a bannable rant.

Maybe where you are reality is different. Here, this is true. Maybe 1/2 the schools in the district have competent admins. The rest are a study in dysfunction. It's not entirely their fault, The board of ed is underfunded, and a lot of teachers and admins punched out for good during Covid. The rest are overworked. It's whack-a-mole for the ones left, and no one wants to sacrifice their pension to save the ship. They're protecting themselves, and to a large extent I can't blame them.

My wife has 3 years left to make 30. I hope she gets there but I wonder what will be left of her. Abby's caseload is currently 22 with 5 of them being heavy duty. 2 need one-on-ones so guess who's handling that?? Admin hired a part-timer to help then promptly shifted her to gen ed leaving Abby twisting in the breeze. They promised her help, got some, then took it away. There aren't enough warm bodies.

Admin here just blows smoke. Empty promises. Board of ed can't keep teachers.

I'm not sure why you took offense. What happens here doesn't impugn your wife or your friends at all. You know this **** varies greatly state to state and indeed county to county within any state. Didn't mean to offend but this is reality in this county, I hope yours is different. Abby's story is not unique at all in this county.