Fire Dennis Allen Billboard (3 Viewers)

[NEBaghead]

Again, context missing......CSP took the Saints to the NFC championship game his 1st year here, he proved he was a leader.....not that he was perfect, no coach is......DA has yet to prove....anything.....

This is the common tactic that DA supporters use (and I think it is reasonable to say you are one if you think he has coached well enough for another year), somehow conflated CSP's faults into illogical, nonsensical comparisons with DA's situation, they are not even close to being the same, it's like comparing apples to rotted apples.....

There have been some positives, there almost always will be with any team (Bresee's development, good young WR group, good young CB group) but when the negatives so outweigh the positives it's hard not to be very critical, especially when Saints fans know what a good coaching staff looks like.....

I am a saints supporter, not a DA supporter. I am OK with firing him. I am also OK with him getting a 3rd year as that is a pretty standard approach. What I am not a supporter of is skewing facts to back my argument.
All I keep hearing is about context, yet this board is littered with out of context quotes, tweets, insider info about DA's coaching ability and why he has lost the team and shouldn't be the coach. If you don't want admit that anti-DA people are skewing facts, then there is no point to have this discussion. Don't sit there and lob accusations at other people for doing what you are doing yourself whenever a point is made that goes against your point of view.

 

[TenTwo]

I am a saints supporter, not a DA supporter. I am OK with firing him. I am also OK with him getting a 3rd year as that is a pretty standard approach. What I am not a supporter of is skewing facts to back my argument.
All I keep hearing is about context, yet this board is littered with out of context quotes, tweets, insider info about DA's coaching ability and why he has lost the team and shouldn't be the coach. If you don't want admit that anti-DA people are skewing facts, then there is no point to have this discussion. Don't sit there and lob accusations at other people for doing what you are doing yourself whenever a point is made that goes against your point of view.

And which skewed facts and which anti-DA people are you referring to?

 

[NEBaghead]

And which skewed facts and which anti-DA people are you referring to?

I am referring to the quote from sfdlc3 in that comment but have seen it said multiple times through out several threads over the last couple of weeks. I just keep hearing blanket statements about Pro DA people being out of context. I like to think of myself as being more impartial and looking at the situation from both sides, but everyone tends to think they are impartial. I did include pro and anti DA items in my first post but was told that I was a DA supporter because I defended the decision to retain him.

"This is the common tactic that DA supporters use (and I think it is reasonable to say you are one if you think he has coached well enough for another year), somehow conflated CSP's faults into illogical, nonsensical comparisons with DA's situation, they are not even close to being the same, it's like comparing apples to rotted apples....."

 

[Grant Backer Two]

I will say this for the 28.3 time!
MANY of today's Saints fans would have NEVER survived the early years.
Have a great day!
Ed Hargett and Bobby Scott 9-8 vs. 2-12, 1-13 etc. Puh lease...

 

[LiterOCola]

And which skewed facts and which anti-DA people are you referring to?

Ignoring the context, I'll make it easier and go on record as being anti-DA. I hated DA before it was cool. I've been waiting for him to get canned for going on 8 years now.

 

[IceHot]

This is extremely inappropriate!!!! Particularly for some one who thinks they can use the Saints team name in what they do.

Karen or Nicole certainly will be sued if she puts up this Billboard.

 

[TenTwo]

Ignoring the context, I'll make it easier and go on record as being anti-DA. I hated DA before it was cool. I've been waiting for him to get canned for going on 8 years now.

I have been on the fire DA train on and off, although I admit at times, I saw the best in him and hoped we would succeed with him. I am currently on the "get him the f out" side of the fence.

The funny thing is, for about 15 minutes I was on the Keep DA side until he apologized to the Falcons. I have seen people explain why that was the right thing to do, but I just can't agree. If he wants to cut Jameis or whatever they can do to hold the players responisble, go for it. I just didn't like deflecting the blame. He acts too much like a guy who knows he is hanging on by a thread.

 

[Yingers70]

Classless. This isn’t 3rd year Arthur Smith.

It was a winning season for a 2nd year HC who went from 7-10 to 9-8. Top 8 defense in points allowed. Offense finished top 10 in scoring with 23.6 vs last year’s 19.4. That said, I believe a better HC gets you 1-2 more wins. But, “Fire DA” billboards aren’t warranted and it’s a terrible look.

All of that against the easiest schedule I have ever seen as a Saints fan. We played a lot of bottom of the league and backup QBs.
9-8 was a definitely not my expectation at the beginning of the season. And not what the team said they expected either. No moving the goalpost now.

 

[Twags14]

Then Dan Campbell should have been fired last year. We finished pretty much the same as Campbell (The Lord and Savior Coach according to some) did in his second year.

you're missing the big picture. I'm not even looking at records. its easy to point at 9-8 and say we did decent. But if you watch these games and the coaching, we severely underachieved.

 

[sainthood]

Head Coaches are tied to the quarterback they select with either a high draft pick or big free agent contract signed during his tenure. To me the largest indictment of Allen is the "keep doing what you are doing" mantra where the on field production does not match the talent or magnitude of the salary commitment to talent on the roster. The last season of Sean Payton and first season of Allen had no healthy legitimate quarterback. Enter Derek Carr. For most of 2023, we saw inconsistency, an archaic offensive system run by a water boy of Sean Payton's offense that Dennis Allen took little if any accountability or positive input, and Carr get knocked out of games twice.

By the end of 2023 what I think I saw is what Carr might look like when he is healthy and a chance he might not be the emperor of empty yards with reasonable offensive line protection to be a better than average but not great NFL QB. The logic to me is if Carr is even close to viable you have to keep Carr for salary cap reasons and in doing so you keep Allen because the two are tied at the hip. Any new coach is going to want his quarterback which likely means we need a high draft pick which this team does not have and is not likely to have unless we tank. There is too much talent on this roster and the division is too weak for the Saints to tank on the level of the Commanders, Panthers, Cardinals, or Patriots.

To tank requires us eating the cap hits on former stars that are no longer themselves like Ram, Cam, Lattimore, Kamara, CGM, Peat, Mathieu, Maye, Winston, and possibly Hill. If you are older and a high cap you are gone and we intentionally lose without saying it aloud to get a shot at a high draft pick and hope for the best and not end up in the eternal hell that is the Browns, Bears, or the Jets that have drafted the likes of Couch, Manzeil, Mayfield, Turbisky, Fields, Sam Darnold, and Zach Wilson. Look at the Panthers with Bryce Young and the roulette that path could be? As much as we may call for Dennis Allen's head, tanking and missing on a QB is worse.

The Cam Jordan extension should indicate this team is ultra loyal almost to a fault and has no interest in tanking. With that it requires accepting the only way Dennis Allen and Derek Carr ever win a Superbowl is if we get a highly qualified offensive coordinator who can give us a modern offense and Allen can shut up and let that coach run the offense. The way it is looking I think that person might be Jon Gruden.

I don't know if he can do it, but if we cannot get rid of Carr and we cannot get rid of Allen, and he cannot politically be the head coach in this league I would not be shocked if Gruden is brought in to functionally run the offense and call plays and somehow Pete Carmichael stays on as offensive coordinator.

I am not saying that is what is best, but reading the tea leaves it could also mean Allen has one more year, Gruden gets his feet back in the league and if we fire Allen maybe Gruden takes over.

 

[texasjefe]

As someone who has been watching football across six decades, these are the attributes of teams that I can respect.

• A winning AND relevant team
• A team starting over with young, hungry players
• A team being built into a winner across 2-3 seasons.
• A head coach who develops players and has a team playing its best late in the season

dennisball offers none of these things. These are the Ground Hog Day Saints.

Three late wins against the division does not yield any trust from me for the future.

But Mickey and the gang have closed ranks because their personal friendships and loyalties are their entitlement.

Here's to the fresh new offseason, where Mickey annually blows sunshine up our collective arses.

So I haz disapoint that billboard not a thing yet.

 

[TomThomster7]

you're missing the big picture. I'm not even looking at records. its easy to point at 9-8 and say we did decent. But if you watch these games and the coaching, we severely underachieved.

Point. Set. Match.

 

[sfidc3]

I am referring to the quote from sfdlc3 in that comment but have seen it said multiple times through out several threads over the last couple of weeks. I just keep hearing blanket statements about Pro DA people being out of context. I like to think of myself as being more impartial and looking at the situation from both sides, but everyone tends to think they are impartial. I did include pro and anti DA items in my first post but was told that I was a DA supporter because I defended the decision to retain him.

"This is the common tactic that DA supporters use (and I think it is reasonable to say you are one if you think he has coached well enough for another year), somehow conflated CSP's faults into illogical, nonsensical comparisons with DA's situation, they are not even close to being the same, it's like comparing apples to rotted apples....."

If you are fine with having him back then how are you not a supporter?

And what I posted above is the absolute truth....I've seen it time and time again.....I've yet to hear a good argument for keeping DA around....

And I'm also a Saints fan, I want them to win, next year regardless but I think it is very improbable with this coaching staff and the fact that the schedule is about to get much tougher....

I will say this for the 28.3 time!
MANY of today's Saints fans would have NEVER survived the early years.
Have a great day!
Ed Hargett and Bobby Scott 9-8 vs. 2-12, 1-13 etc. Puh lease...

I lived through those years as a kid, it was easier because we expected the Saints to be bad, the owner (Mecom) was an absolute clown.....

Benson ownership has been much better obviously, not perfect but they hired CSP, who built the Saints into a winning culture.....I'll always be thankful for CSP/Brees and that the Saints my sons grew up with were so much better than the team I did.....

It's up to ownership/FO to be engaged and honest about wanting a winning franchise (instead of the status quo), I don't get that feeling here....

 

[St. Widge]

As someone who has been watching football across six decades, these are the attributes of teams that I can respect.

• A winning AND relevant team
• A team starting over with young, hungry players
• A team being built into a winner across 2-3 seasons.
• A head coach who develops players and has a team playing its best late in the season

dennisball offers none of these things. These are the Ground Hog Day Saints.

I don't disagree that DA needs to go, but didn't DA just fulfill your fourth requirement of :

• A head coach who develops players and has a team playing its best late in the season

I guess you could argue that he didn't do a great job of developing players, although I do think several young players have developed well, i.e. Olave, Rasheed, A.T. Perry, Breese, Yiadom, Howden, but his team was certainly playing their best ball late in the season even if it was against weaker competition. I mean, the competition was weak, but they did play by far their best ball at the end of the season.

 

[Judge_Smails]

Then Dan Campbell should have been fired last year. We finished pretty much the same as Campbell (The Lord and Savior Coach according to some) did in his second year.

To this guy ^^ everything’s an apple.