Hill vs Siemian why is there a debate? (2 Viewers)

[BayouSAINTJoe]

You talk like there isn’t 5 years of games of Jameis Winston being a starting professional QB to add to the games he’s played here. There is no such games for Hill, only backup duty on a team built for another QB and he hasn’t really earned anything more. To be fair, Jameis’ time here has also been with a team built for another QB. Judging them equally isn’t even logical. Jameis #1 overall pick with 5 years staring experience vs Taysom UDFA with 4 career starts? That it’s even a debate is embarrassing.

The thing is...it really isn't a debate, its only a debate because one side feels so strongly against JW that they made it a debate. TH's natural competition is a player like TS...but I'm pulling for him, I really am

Edit: and you showed your slip already...you said "I'm a JW hater" literally already, so that kinda puts you in questionable standing when it comes to critiquing JW.

 

[CowtownSaint]

Actually no debate. Siemien is our QB. Hill one of our most potent weapons.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Actually no debate. Siemien is our QB. Hill one of our most potent weapons.

Hill isn't going back to Joker, we're down the starter and are left with only 2 REAL options at QB for the next 9 games, they're not going to hang TH out there to get dinged up again. Its either QB1 or QB2 for him going forward.

 

[Quiet Storm]

I view Taysom as the scene in Horrible Bosses where Kevin Spacey's character didn't give Jason Bateman's character the promotion because he was to valuable where he was.

With no Thomas now for the rest of the year I feel like we need Taysom in his gadget role. I thought Trevor played poised and well considering the situation he was thrown in.

 

[meily]

He held the ball for 8 seconds and didn't leave the pocket to throw the ball away in a game where field position was important. It was dumb. Did you watch how Siemian was getting outside the tackles and throwing the ball away last week? That's what nearly all QBs do and while, to his credit, Jameis didn't force the throw, he did force the sack by hanging onto the ball too long. It's a reasonable criticism.

All of that said, Taysom wouldn't do it either. He'd run the ball without even trying to get to the third guy in his progression. That will expose him to injury and likely cost us a game because the game plan has to change more if he gets knocked out than it did when Jameis did.

Siemian, good or bad, should start. Book should be game day #2.

People love Winston because of his big arm but fail to realize that a QB with half his talent can flourish in this offense because of something called intangibles.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

People love Winston because of his big arm but fail to realize that a QB with half his talent can flourish in this offense because of something called intangibles.

And lemme guess, Ian Book has those intangibles.

WTH ever, these guys would run into a burning building for JW...I doubt they'd even warn Ian Book that he's about to step in dog poop right now.

 

[BoxerJoe]

The thing is...it really isn't a debate, its only a debate because one side feels so strongly against JW that they made it a debate. TH's natural competition is a player like TS...but I'm pulling for him, I really am

Edit: and you showed your slip already...you said "I'm a JW hater" literally already, so that kinda puts you in questionable standing when it comes to critiquing JW.

It wasn't a debate because of "the haters." It was a debate because it was a legitimate training camp QB competition and one that proved to be closer than some would have thought. Payton said it was a legitimate competition. Nick Underhill and all the reporters confirmed that and how close it was in their reporting. Do you think Payton lied to Taysom and told him to slim down and focus all off-season on being a QB just for the lulz?
I think Jameis supporters are in such denial because it's a bad look to admit that Jameis the Heisman winning, 5,000-yard season passing, former #1 overall pick was actually pushed closely in camp by Taysom freakin' Hill.

ETA: I remember some posters here saying how happy they were that Taysom was able to push Winston and make it such a close competition because that made it better for everyone.

 

[Super44]

Hill NEVER looked like he was the starter in comparison to Winston it was all semantics. Siemian entered the game and executed the offense something we've seen Hill do before but Siemian showed touch and an ability to find a passing window and though only one game appeared to scan the field and get and find his second, third and even fourth reads.

This offense does not need a super star quarterback to win, just a heady player with a natural natural feel for the passing game.

There are some aspects (not a shot against Winston) of Seimians game that made the offense flow naturally with his touch and pocket presence that makes people want to see more of him.

He gets the ball in the playmakers hands and that's really what Payton wants from his quarterbacks

Siemian appears to throw the ball where the receiver can catch it with confidence to then get YAC. This is one of the best attributes a QB can have. If a receiver has to wait on the pass, he will have happy feet and lose momentum in his route. One of the things with Winston was, receivers had to be similar to a middle infielder, in baseball. The receiver never knew if the ball was coming low and left, low and right, at the feet, at the head, high and left, high and right, or wherever. Receivers were like walking on eggshells to catch Winston’s throws. It is what it is. Winston is not an accurate passer, but he is/was better then Hill. With Siemian, and from what I saw, he processes the coverage very quick and throws a pass with great ball placement for the receiver to catch. Similar attributes to Drew. Let me say this though. HE IS NOT DREW! HE IS NOT WINSTON! But I think, he is our best option on the roster. Especially, considering how Hill helps the offense, in his joler role. Hill is the BEST and the most unique talent in the history of the NFL, for what he does. No one even close in the history of the league. Not even today. Teams are trying to find the next Hill, but none on the radar ATM.

All said. Please let the Hill dog to lay in his bed and allow Siemian to be the QB.

 

[Saintamaniac]

Everyone agreed that naming Winston the starter was the right call and that he won the job fair and square.

I disagree. Maybe you missed the whole thread about Hill should request a trade and that the QB competition was unfair to Hill. Not everyone agreed that naming Winston the starter was the right call and definitely not everyone thought he won the job fair and sqare

That doesn't mean you can't root for Taysom to come in and light it up.

I never said I wasn't going to root for Hill to light it up. I simply said I won't accept bad Oline play or WR's not getting open as an excuse if Hill struggles to maintain or improve the offensive performance.

It also doesn't mean you can't/shouldn't stay consistent with evaluating the QB's performance.

Oh I plan to be as consistent as the crowd that has been critical of Winston these first 6 games have been.

 

[Sailorsaint]

I think the only debate we'll be having is which QB we'll be throwing under the bus when he doesn't perform like we think he should. In my mind we have an equal amount of chance for success with either TH or TS. My only worry about starting TH is whether he is ready to step in and start after being out for this long nursing a concussion. If he starts, expect him to be a bit rusty. TS has been practicing as the QB2 while TH was hurt, he may be the more ready QB right now. I would hope that TS gets the start so that TH will have another week of practice before getting the start next week.

 

[Elvis]

I think the only debate we'll be having is which QB we'll be throwing under the bus when he doesn't perform like we think he should. In my mind we have an equal amount of chance for success with either TH or TS. My only worry about starting TH is whether he is ready to step in and start after being out for this long nursing a concussion. If he starts, expect him to be a bit rusty. TS has been practicing as the QB2 while TH was hurt, he may be the more ready QB right now. I would hope that TS gets the start so that TH will have another week of practice before getting the start next week.

As they say, if you have two quarterbacks, you really have none. We’ve been in that boat all year. While some want Winston to be the guy and act like he was, he was a 5 year NFL starter that still had the training wheels on. Taysom would be the same way. That there is now a question if Siemian gives us the best chance only enhances that we really never had a long term starting QB going into this season. We’ll see how it all shakes out, but personally I’ll be disappointed if the team isn’t looking to upgrade the position in the off-season.

 

[BoxerJoe]

I disagree. Maybe you missed the whole thread about Hill should request a trade and that the QB competition was unfair to Hill. Not everyone agreed that naming Winston the starter was the right call and definitely not everyone thought he won the job fair and sqare

I never said I wasn't going to root for Hill to light it up. I simply said I won't accept bad Oline play or WR's not getting open as an excuse if Hill struggles to maintain or improve the offensive performance.

Oh I plan to be as consistent as the crowd that has been critical of Winston these first 6 games have been.

I'll take the hit on that first part because I do remember that reaction to Hill. But I meant "everyone" in more of an overwhelming general consensus concept though.

That's just the type of hypocrisy I am talking about. Jameis supporters want to hold Taysom supporters to task over being as critical with Taysom as they were with Jameis, but Jameis supporters don't want to be held to task of explaining away things for Taysom like they did for Jameis. Your saying, "I'm going to act like Taysom supporters by not allowing excuses" is no different that a Taysom supporter saying, "I'm going to act like Jameis supporters and excuse away every bad thing of Taysom under the sun."

 

[Infoman]

Again, The amount of fanboyism and doubt fostered in the off season against Tasyom on this board is astounding...

JW earned the job... He beat Taysom to be the starter... That's a fact. JW is out for the season. It's bad luck, but it is what it is.

Taysom was very close to him in this competition by all non-bias accounts (until the last pre-season game)

Some of you have too much "post equity" in poo poo'n on Taysom's ability to play QB... and your "slip is showing".

Suck it up and support the man. Because with this team and coach.... Chances are he's going to have a 10 game stretch where he wins most of his starts, Looks like a man among boys doing it, and rides a great defense and running game into a deep playoff run. (If healthy)

If Sean can make JW a game manager, and limit his turnovers in order to play to the teams strengths and get wins... He can do it with Taysom... I have no doubt of that.

We are almost dead last in every passing category in the past 7 games with JW starting and we have won 5 of 7, and it should be 6 if not for the defensive meltdown against the G-Men....

Not only will Taysom be fine... he's built for this team... and can't do much worse than 31st in every passing category like we are now (and we are still winning).

I think most of the guys that are still poo poo'n on him now, are just terrified that they are going to have to eat 4 months of BS criticisms about Taysom as a QB, and look... very well documented.... dumb..

Get on board... It's Happening.

 

[BBarnes]

And yet showed nothing on the field in game time. Jameis did more with the second and third team than Hill did with the first team in the first preseason game and just killed it with the starters in the 2nd game. So much so that coach pulled him early. Then we dealt with Taysom looking lost after that.

We really need to stop trying to force square peg Taysom into the round hole that is a starting QB position.

It’s amazing how many people know nothing about Hill as a QB, they just like the player and that he’s a team player and very likable guy.

The truth is, Hill wasn’t a good “passing” QB in college and while he’s better now, he still isn’t good. He’s yet to learn how to successfully and continually go through progressions (we saw what happened when given that chance against Philly), he doesn’t throw receivers open (they have to be wide open which won’t happen often with this receiving Corp), etc.

I honestly admire Payton’s loyalty, it’s admirable and it’s one of the many reasons almost every player loves playing for him. Just make sure that loyalty and even a little bit of arrogance doesn’t kill the team.

If he goes with Hill, he’s plenty good enough to beat the bad teams with our defense, but with no MT to bail him out I don’t see him being close to a QB that will win a playoff game or have us deep in the playoffs.

 

[jasonsw]

It's funny that two comments you see on this forum are:
Our WR are garbage, they can't get open.
&
Taysom makes 1 read then takes off running

I mean if the first is true, then the second is beneficial.

I dont really mind Taysom running, what hurts is when he waits too long in making a decision which results in a negative play.