(long read) Let's talk Jameis Winston's future... while keeping it real. (1 Viewer)

[kjun3724]

If this team is firing on all cylinders and we are headed to a playoff run Jameis is our QB2 (baring some miraculous playing from Haener. But if we are below 500 and looking like crap, he will be trade bait for a team that losses their starter mid season and still fighting for a playoff spot. I love hearing the stories coming out about how much he has grown as a leader. If he can fix his untimely lapses in judgement, and his propensity to overthrow a pass that lands in DBs arms, he could be a top tier QB.

 

[Judge_Smails]

What are you talking about..."it was clearly not debatable that AD was better."

/sarcasm

I remember that guy. Lol.

I really hope Carr plays well this year just so this place doesn’t turn into the next season of Yellowjackets.

 

[Judge_Smails]

And Baby Jesus, you owe me, for dismally failing to answer my Taysom Hill prayers!!!!!!!!

Right? If all his prayers came true, Taysom would be QB1, the new host of Jeopardy, the bartender at Brennan’s, and the newest Jonas Brother.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

Right? If all his prayers came true, Taysom would be QB1, the new host of Jeopardy, the bartender at Brennan’s, and the newest Jonas Brother.

And Priyanka Chopras actual baby daddy

 

[Infoman]

Right? If all his prayers came true, Taysom would be QB1, the new host of Jeopardy, the bartender at Brennan’s, and the newest Jonas Brother.

If Taysom was the QB1 the last 2 seasons - We'd have won our stank division twice... Since Carr is better than Taysom... There is no longer a call to arms for TH7 from me... See how that works? Something obviously better for the team... I am on board. You guys should try that. Baby Jesus would approve...

 

[Big_L]

I think at this point Haener most accurately = unknown. Nobody knows how good or bad he'll turn out.

He is a late round pick who hasn't done anything spectacular in college, just like those other dudes at this exact same point in their rookie season.

 

[sfidc3]

Right? If all his prayers came true, Taysom would be QB1, the new host of Jeopardy, the bartender at Brennan’s, and the newest Jonas Brother.

One thing we no for certain, though, he ain't nevah, nevah, nevah, nevah going back to that utility player role....just no way man!!!!!!!

 

[Turpin]

Winston is a quality QB. He's shown it when he was the starter in Tampa. He's more talented than the bottom half of the other staters in the league. He's got the talent, but the knock on him has been decision making.

I would imagine that he will get a chance to start some where after his time here is over.

Personally I wish him much success where ever he goes.

The only problem I have with this is that decision making is a huge component of QB play. Its difficult for me to separate his physical gifts from his decision making shortcomings. I have grown to like Jameis as a person and a teammate. However, I would be surprised if he is a starter again in the league. I expect that he will compete each fall for a starting roll, and ultimately end up as the backup. His body of work is sufficient enough to show that he is not an upper tier QB when it comes to the entire package.

 

[BayouSAINTJoe]

The only problem I have with this is that decision making is a huge component of QB play. Its difficult for me to separate his physical gifts from his decision making shortcomings. I have grown to like Jameis as a person and a teammate. However, I would be surprised if he is a starter again in the league. I expect that he will compete each fall for a starting roll, and ultimately end up as the backup. His body of work is sufficient enough to show that he is not an upper tier QB when it comes to the entire package.

Andy Dalton got a starting job this coming season...no reason to think that JW shouldn't find a similar circumstance.

He'll just need to show out when he gets the chance...keep the rookie on the bench for at least year 1.

 

[jahsoul357]

The only problem I have with this is that decision making is a huge component of QB play. Its difficult for me to separate his physical gifts from his decision making shortcomings. I have grown to like Jameis as a person and a teammate. However, I would be surprised if he is a starter again in the league. I expect that he will compete each fall for a starting roll, and ultimately end up as the backup. His body of work is sufficient enough to show that he is not an upper tier QB when it comes to the entire package.

Decision making really didn't become the narrative until 2019 when he ran an offense that's probably one of the most complex in the league. So in 2020, you hear Carson Palmer say this about Bruce Arians offense:

“I believe he’ll have a big jump," Palmer said. "If he’s back in Tampa with Bruce, I really believe he’ll come back. Mentally, it’s such a difficult offense. It is not easy. There are tons of formations. Tons of shifts. Every play can change at the line of scrimmage, protection-wise. (funny how this contradicts what a lot of people say on here about his ability to do certain things..) There’s so many different concepts.

"We would go into game plans, and I know Tampa went into game plans with the possibility of having 300 to 400 plays come off the play sheet. So it’s not a simple offense. You know, you watch Baltimore play and you watch some of these teams that are just dynamic on offense and they’re putting in each game plan probably half the amount of plays that Bruce carries, so it’s not a simple offense to pick up and start off Year 1 and go out and have a Pro Bowl year.

"It takes years. It takes years for the quarterback and it takes years for the guys outside because there’s multiple opportunities where receivers have the opportunity to run one of two routes and they don’t make that decision and make that cut until they get to the top of the route. And that’s just something, you need time, you need experience within that system and that’s something you don’t have.

“You don’t have that experience in Year 1. You need Year 1 to go back and watch the film and see yourself doing it wrong and the receivers seeing themselves doing it wrong and then Year 2, really things start to click. That chemistry starts to develop and that trust and that confidence in the offense starts to develop. If Jameis is back in Tampa, I would expect Year 2 to be a massive year for him.”

So in an offense where both the receiver and the QB must be on the same page coupled with the fact that these choice routes occur at the top of the route (in a vertical offense) multiplied by the fact that someone did an All-22

All-22 Film Review: Bucs QB Jameis Winston's 30 INTs | Pewter Report

PewterReport.com's Trevor Sikkema reviews the film on all of Jameis Winston's 30 interceptions in 2019 and assesses the proper blame.

www.pewterreport.com

that shows that a huge chunk of the interceptions were caused by things other than "decision making" makes one wonder how folks are really doing their evaluation. Especially when the great Tom Brady couldn't finish a season running a scaled down version of this offense. At the end of the day, it is what it is.

And with all of that, he still threw for over 5100 yards and 33 TDs..

@DSnfla Why the facepalm? Lol

 

[StudioSaint]

He is a late round pick who hasn't done anything spectacular in college, just like those other dudes at this exact same point in their rookie season.

And the exact point that they are at is that no one knows how they will turn out.

Are you saying you know for a fact that Haener is not going to be good? How could you possibly know that?

 

[Jesse Custer]

And the exact point that they are at is that no one knows how they will turn out.

Are you saying you know for a fact that Haener is not going to be good? How could you possibly know that?

No. He's saying that people in this very thread saying we should trade Jameis and make Haener the backup are jumping the gun quite a bit.

 

[StudioSaint]

No. He's saying that people in this very thread saying we should trade Jameis and make Haener the backup are jumping the gun quite a bit.

Then they should have more clearly said that, instead of disagreeing with my point that Haener is an unknown.

Being unknown does not equal being good or bad. The poster originally said that Haener equaled all the QB's the Saints drafted that have turned out bad. We don't know if Haener = those bad QB's. That may turn out to be the case, but we don't know that at this point in time.

I don't think the Saints should rely on unknowns as part of their overall plans going into the season and I have no fear that they will. I also have no fear that the Saints will ever make decisions based on what fans think.

I haven't seen anyone in this thread say the Saints should make the decision right now to make Haener the backup and either cut or trade Winston.

I've seen people say that they hope or think Haener will show enough during training camp for the Saints to trust him as the backup, so they can trade Winston for the right value, instead of just losing or releasing him at the end of the season.

There's nothing wrong with hoping for or wanting it to work out that way? Just like there was nothing wrong with people hoping or wanting Winston, Hill, Dalton, Book or Siemien to win the starting QB job.

Why not let people be optimistic about whatever they want? Our opinions have absolutely zero influence on the decisions the Saints make, so no harm comes from anyone's optimism. We can disagree on these things without feeling like we have to prove people wrong for being optimistic about anything.

I'd like to see a lot more "I disagree and this is why" and a lot less of the "you're wrong and here's the proof" or the smugly dismissive "if you don't agree with me, then you don't know what you're talking about" mindset that dominates our society and this board at times.

 

[DSnfla]

Decision making really didn't become the narrative until 2019 when he ran an offense that's probably one of the most complex in the league. So in 2020, you hear Carson Palmer say this about Bruce Arians offense:


So in an offense where both the receiver and the QB must be on the same page coupled with the fact that these choice routes occur at the top of the route (in a vertical offense) multiplied by the fact that someone did an All-22

All-22 Film Review: Bucs QB Jameis Winston's 30 INTs | Pewter Report

PewterReport.com's Trevor Sikkema reviews the film on all of Jameis Winston's 30 interceptions in 2019 and assesses the proper blame.

www.pewterreport.com

that shows that a huge chunk of the interceptions were caused by things other than "decision making" makes one wonder how folks are really doing their evaluation. Especially when the great Tom Brady couldn't finish a season running a scaled down version of this offense. At the end of the day, it is what it is.

And with all of that, he still threw for over 5100 yards and 33 TDs..

@DSnfla Why the facepalm? Lol

The facepalm is because that article like before is written by a pro-Bucs writer and it does not show clips of all JW's picks that yr. It's just an opinion by one writer. Look I'll be the first to say that not all picks are the QB's fault. JW's decision-making and inability to make pre-snap reads have ALWAYS been his problem, not his athletic ability, that's why he is not starting for any team in the league. The best and maybe only shot he has is to get with a QB whisper HC or OC to fix these problems. SP started to but JW got hurt and SP left. My guess is now you will search through your "Every positive thing ever said or printed about JW archive to debate me. The bottom line is NO TEAM wants JW as their starting QB as he is.

 

[jahsoul357]

The facepalm is because that article like before is written by a pro-Bucs writer and it does not show clips of all JW's picks that yr. It's just an opinion by one writer. Look I'll be the first to say that not all picks are the QB's fault.

This is not an opinion piece but an All-22 review and every interceptions has a clip with multiple angles. So it seems like you are trying to dismiss something you didn't spend one second to look at. If you did click on the link, it would have taken you have a second to scroll down and see this


*rubs chin*
Are we seeing pre-snap recognition and adjustments, the right read, and the WR blowing it? Interesting.

So with this, you've already "showed your hand."

The problem is, you probably know that it probably demolishes your "evaluation" of the player. It has good and bad plays in there but it also gives the casual fan insight into the type of offense that the Bucs ran. It was one of the most complex offenses in the league.

JW's decision-making and inability to make pre-snap reads have ALWAYS been his problem, not his athletic ability, that's why he is not starting for any team in the league.

People talk about decision making based solely on interceptions and we both know this. This pre-snap read bull crap is a recent phenomenon and you would be hard pressed to find anything to say otherwise. You know how I know this to be true; with the Bucs, Jameis was one of the best QBs in the league against the blitz. How did that magically disappear in 2022?

The best and maybe only shot he has is to get with a QB whisper HC or OC to fix these problems.

When Jameis got his starting job back in 2018, he finished the rest of the season as one of the most efficient QBs in the league with Todd Monken calling plays.



And these aren't cherry picked by any means. This is 7 straight games to finish the 2018 season.

So tell me more about this QB whisperer?

SP started to but JW got hurt and SP left. My guess is now you will search through your "Every positive thing ever said or printed about JW archive to debate me. The bottom line is NO TEAM wants JW as their starting QB as he is.

Don't have to search through anything and it would be a waste of time to discuss football from a non feeling based standpoints when it comes to Jameis, because as I've already stated, you showed your angle the first sentence of your post.