Nick Underhill: Saints Might Not Move on from DA (2 Viewers)

[kcirdor]

He would have stuck with Haslett longer if there was no behind scenes incidents.

 

[guillermo]

I read the article written by Underhill regarding Loomis.

I don't buy this one. Not for Loomis. He can't sell me the idea of being the patient guy when he handles his future assets without regard. He is not shy of committing draft picks to questionable moves. His method of dealing with the cap may be consistent but keep us without options.
Let's be honest, his cap management will not allow us to keep all of the young players he is listing as a young core.
As per the health of our players, we have the same problem since Payton, and we don't see results.
And the Jordan comparison? Do you really in your right mind can think Payton Turner, Foskey or even Chase Young can reach that level?
This is a result business, and the last 3 years have been mediocre results, we can't rely on patience and keep doing the same, hoping for better results.

 

[Saint Jack]

He would have stuck with Haslett longer if there was no behind scenes incidents.

There was no way Haslett was staying after a 3-13 season.

 

[504gks]

I think you are giving Gayle Benson too much credit. Meeting with a player doesn't mean she's involved in personnel decisions.

She was an Interior Decorator

 

[504gks]

He gonna eat some W’s on us

I just want to watch the interviews on line

 

[Hedon James]

Nah, I think Nick has looked to rationalize the scenario and make sense of it. He's as much of a fan of the team as we are, but he's also privy to knowledge that we aren't. We do know that Mickey is patient, and he's digging deeper into that w/ his latest article. He's also fighting against what the historical data is saying w/ regards to losing 6 in a row..etc.

He's where most of us are - caught between angst and acceptance

You make a lot of sense, as usual. But I differ on ONE detail...i think very few of us are inclined to acceptance. Most of us are caught between angst and resignation...I say resignation because we refuse to accept this reality, and angst because we recognize that SOMETHING needs to be done, but we are powerless to do anything about it. We have no say. Won't stop me from saying it though.

ML, on the other hand, absolutely has a say. And the fact that ML seems to be so accepting is making him a target also. Rightly so, IMO. His job is to field a "winner" on the field; if his guy (DA) can't do that after 3 seasons (and 3 "practice" seasons prior to this one), he needs to find a new guy. We all wanted DA to succeed, but the team seems to get worse each year, not better, IMO. Seemingly insurmountable evidence is suggesting the ONLY way that will happen is a "perfect storm" of a season with no adversity and nothing goes wrong. How often does that happen? Is that honestly what we're waiting for in order to determine if DA is the right coach for this team?! In the absence of that perfect storm, we just want ML to do HIS job. If ML won't do his job, we want HIM replaced too. Out of 23 seasons as GM, ML has had only THREE(!) winning seasons without CSP; and only ONE playoff appearance (Hakim dropped the ball, Hakim dropped the ball!!!). Maybe it's a good thing this is playing out like it is. After 22+ seasons of singing his praise (Loomis it, Micky!), I'm honestly SHOCKED at MLs record as GM without CSP. I honestly think ML is part of the problem, and CSP camouflaged it.

And my opinion on THAT matter counts about as much as my opinion on the HC situation... Won't stop me from saying it though. I'll refrain from the name-calling, mud-slinging, and manhood-questioning, because none of that is relevant. What IS relevant is that neither ML nor DA seem to be able to get results, from a team that DA inherited that missed playoffs on a tie-breaker. Without CSP at the helm, ML record as GM is almost as pitiful as DAs record as head coach. If ML isn't trying to find the next HC to turn things around, I have every reason to believe that the Saints fortunes will continue to trend along ML's historic record as Saints GM and DA's historic record as HC (hint...they are similar!). And ML has publicly stated, every chance he gets, that he will continue to be patient with DA. Publicly, I have no problem with his declaration of support....that's what he SHOULD do....that's what "good" organizations do. But in the offseason, he actually follows through with it. Patience and hope are not sustainable strategies for success in the NFL.

Time for MLs seat to get hot, IMO. Too hot to sit in, if possible. Promote him....retire him...make him a consultant....his 23 years of loyal service is not to be forgotten. But that GM position needs to be filled by new blood and a fresh body. And I've only recently come to this conclusion because of MLs recent statements about DAs tenure....telling us we're not seeing what we actually, in fact, saw! Caused me to start looking into MLs tenure. Without CSP....it's not very impressive. I honestly think ML is a big part of the problem. And I don't think it's reasonable to expect that he'll catch lighting in a bottle (a CSP type hire) TWICE. Not impossible, but unlikely. JMO...(see above regarding importance of my opinion)

 

[Broad St. Saint]

There was no way Haslett was staying after a 3-13 season.

Arguably Haslett had a better argument (Katrina and no home field) for being able to stay after that 3-13 season than Dennis Allen will if, say, Allen goes 3-14. Every team has injuries, especially teams with losing records. Virtually no team suddenly loses their home field with little warning for the whole season.

 

[Hedon James]

Fan anger should be fully directed at Mickey Loomis and Gayle Benson. Mickey has mismanaged our cap and allowed DA to keep doing what he's doing. He's the reason we are stuck with a bunch of old players with immovable contracts, which amounts to one of the worst cap situations in the league. Gayle should be blamed for failing to step in and take control of this runaway carriage.

I don't think that's a fair assessment. Most owners aren't football people, and almost certainly not at the level to run a successful franchise for any length of time. That's why they hire competent GMs to run the show. A competent GM hires a competent coach and talent scouts, and trusts those folks to do their job they were hired to to; just like the owner trusts the GM to run the football operation.

I don't blame the owner for this shipwreck....at least not yet. I blame the GM. And after 3 years of this circus, I fully expect that GM to make an attempt to rectify the situation between now and early January. If the plan is to "be patient" yet again, then I would expect the owner to say "no...unacceptable" and find a new GM. ML has had 2 seasons after DAs initial season to fix problems. Let's give the owner a similar time frame with the GM that the GM gave the HC. We don't need to "fire everybody". We just need at least 1 (HC) or possibly 2 (GM & HC) calculated hires to see improvement, IMO. I hope it happens...and maybe it's already in the works? I just hope the HEAT continues...

 

[St. Widge]

Serious question? How many people are able to objectively evaluate their own performance without pressure from some supervisor? Mick has no boss and he's determined to show all of us "suckers" he knows about something he clearly got lucky doing the first time. He's our own Jerry Jones

Lots of people can and do do that. In fact, highly successful people do it all the time. It tends to be unsuccessful people who don't rise to positions of power that don't understand their own faults and short comings. It's why self-evaluations are tools used by HR departments. It forces people to look at themselves.

 

[St. Widge]

Arguably Haslett had a better argument (Katrina and no home field) for being able to stay after that 3-13 season than Dennis Allen will if, say, Allen goes 3-14. Every team has injuries, especially teams with losing records. Virtually no team suddenly loses their home field with little warning for the whole season.

Haslett had some off field issues that he got away with when Mueller was fired that likely went into the decision to let him go at that point. And regardless of the record, it had been clear for quite some time that the team had given up on Haslett which is very likely what it will take for Loomis to fire DA. Although I think a 5 or less win season would get him fired regardless of if the team gives up on him.

 

[St. Widge]

Agree totally with vilpipa's post above. Loomis was the right GM for a coach like Payton. At times, he was perhaps too lax--see bountygate. But with Payton, Loomis made it work. And he deserves much credit for making it work.

I do not believe Loomis has the skill set to now recognize what we need and do what needs to be done.

If he hired Payton and realized that he needed to give Payton that power over personnel decisions, what makes you think he can't or won't do the same thing again?

 

[Blazing Saint]

We're slowly turning to the levels of the Jets.

 

[Nolan]

Nick refuses to have an opinion on the matter, for better or worse. He just kinda teeters between "this might happen" or "this might happen", without having an actual take on it. I love the guy, but there's nothing groundbreaking coming from his camp on this.

 

[St. Widge]

Nick refuses to have an opinion on the matter, for better or worse. He just kinda teeters between "this might happen" or "this might happen", without having an actual take on it. I love the guy, but there's nothing groundbreaking coming from his camp on this.

I think Nick is facing reality. Nobody, including the Rebel janitor, unless he is Loomis, really knows what Loomis is thinking or what he is going to do. He says all positive things in public, but that's what GMs do right up to the point that they fire the head coach.

The fact is that Loomis probably has not made a decision yet and is waiting to see what the final record is and if the team gives up on DA before he makes that decision. So neither Nick nor anyone else can say what is going to happen. All they can really do is look at the thought process that Loomis tends to use and take guesses about what he will do and what factors would make him do one thing on the other.

But fans don't want to hear that. They just either want DA fired now or a guarantee that he will be fired at the end of the season.

 

[Saint Jack]

Arguably Haslett had a better argument (Katrina and no home field) for being able to stay after that 3-13 season than Dennis Allen will if, say, Allen goes 3-14. Every team has injuries, especially teams with losing records. Virtually no team suddenly loses their home field with little warning for the whole season.

At least Haslett had some sort of success in his Saints career in 2000.