Nick Underhill: Saints Might Not Move on from DA (2 Viewers)

[BreesusSaves]

The big difference between a Payton 7-9 and DA 7-9, I'd that with a little touchip and some improvements in certain areas, the Saints would be be a playoff contender.

7-9 or 8-9 with DA feels like smoke and mirrors, and that's the best we are going to see.

The difference is a Payton 7-9 involved a top 5 scoring offense being sabotaged by a bottom 5 scoring defense. Payton's calling card, the offense, performed.

Meanwhile DA's defense keeps getting worse.

 

[Devildog]

In one of those videos, Jacob Hester made a really important point. There really been no team, outside of the Patriots when Brady was there, that has tried to keep their Super Bowl window open as long as we have to the detriment of draft pics and salary cap. We are going to get so much worse and stay in the cellar for longer because of how ML has mismanaged the cap.

 

[Saint Spud]

The problem is, we are doing nothing to fix the cap.

You fix the cap by drafting better. Need players on rookie deals to be major contributors or depth players

 

[3ParStillDriver]

Normally, I'd agree with you. He should have been fired after Year 2. But it's become apparent in the middle of Year 3 that was a mistake. So here's a list of reasons why it would be a positive move, rather than a negative:

• in an emergency situation, step #1 is ALWAYS "stop the bleeding" ASAP; Saints need to stop the bleeding, or at least MAKE THE ATTEMPT
• it's pretty obvious the players aren't giving their best effort. firing the HC mid-season sends a message that things are going to be different. for those who WANT to be here, it's a message of encouragement.
• for those who are "coasting" through the season, they're being served notice that their game film will be auditioned by a NEW (to be determined) staff. they'll be playing for their jobs. I expect the team will play better because anyone "going through the motions" won't want a new regime making decisions based off less-than full effort
• can't speak for others, but I'm under no delusions of turning things around and competing for NFCS division title this season. my eyes are on the 2025 season, and getting the right coach and players to play from that point forward.

As to the 4th bullet point, I'd even CONSIDER eating as many bloated "dead money" contracts as I could in 2025, with the understanding we would be terrible in 2025; but with hope for 2026 and beyond. if we're bad enough in 2025, I think Arch Manning will be within reach for our 2026 draft position. If that's the direction we're going, I'd add one more year to a new coaches contract so that he has THREE YEARS of HIS REGIME and HIS PLAYERS, not including the "dead year" of all the purges. For me, this scenario is preferred over retaining DA ad nauseum, because THIS scenario has hope in my eyes. It's no guarantee of future success, but it's only the 2nd-worst scenario I can envision. Retaining DA is the doomsday scenario, IMO.

So that's my list of reasons why it could be a GOOD thing to fire the HC mid-season. We missed the end-of-season window, so mid-season is the next best thing. and I DO think it's gotten critical.

I get it, it just doesn't seem logical to me for a few reasons. Just to get the Arch Manning concept out of the conversation, he's a redshirt freshman. His family, especially Eli, have been pounding it into his head to stay in college and not entire the draft until after his senior year, which so far, he's been listening to their advice (look back him considering entering the transfer portal and Eli telling him no, to stay as Ewers backup). So it could be till 2028 when Arch enters the draft. None of us have a crystal ball so its hard to say.

To the rest of the post, the players have checked out, its true. We all see it. But the cap is in shambles. We have no draft capital. Its hard to imagine what good potential coach would want to come here next season even if we wait till the offseason to fire Dennis Allen. We'd likely end up with another below average or bottom of the barrell coach.

To top that off I think you're greatly misunderstanding what "the message" your sending impact really has. The players have "silently quit" already. Firing a head coach mid season is also incredibly dramatic. I think its unreasonable to expect people who have silently quit, to be introduced to a turmoil of drama and expect them to re-engage with any enthusiasm. Yes, it seemed to occur with the Raiders last year when Pierce took over, but its also having a negative impact on the Jets this year. And from what we've seen in the past, it rarely, if ever, has a positive outcome.

And again, you're adding an additional factor for the next head coach to consider when accepting the job. Why would Ben Johnson, or Aaron Glen accept this job when there are more stable front offices, with less drama and better cap situations pining for em? Anyone who comes in after DA will be set up for failure.

 

[504gks]

I hope the 1-7 Panthers blow us out! We need to lose out to even have a chance of DA being gone

I want Jameis to 4 td us

 

[Dome50]

I get it, it just doesn't seem logical to me for a few reasons. Just to get the Arch Manning concept out of the conversation, he's a redshirt freshman. His family, especially Eli, have been pounding it into his head to stay in college and not entire the draft until after his senior year, which so far, he's been listening to their advice (look back him considering entering the transfer portal and Eli telling him no, to stay as Ewers backup). So it could be till 2028 when Arch enters the draft. None of us have a crystal ball so its hard to say.

To the rest of the post, the players have checked out, its true. We all see it. But the cap is in shambles. We have no draft capital. Its hard to imagine what good potential coach would want to come here next season even if we wait till the offseason to fire Dennis Allen. We'd likely end up with another below average or bottom of the barrell coach.

To top that off I think you're greatly misunderstanding what "the message" your sending impact really has. The players have "silently quit" already. Firing a head coach mid season is also incredibly dramatic. I think its unreasonable to expect people who have silently quit, to be introduced to a turmoil of drama and expect them to re-engage with any enthusiasm. Yes, it seemed to occur with the Raiders last year when Pierce took over, but its also having a negative impact on the Jets this year. And from what we've seen in the past, it rarely, if ever, has a positive outcome.

And again, you're adding an additional factor for the next head coach to consider when accepting the job. Why would Ben Johnson, or Aaron Glen accept this job when there are more stable front offices, with less drama and better cap situations pining for em? Anyone who comes in after DA will be set up for failure.

Good post. And all of this, for me, goes back to Loomis. As the General Manager he oversees the cap and the transactions that impact the cap. He makes and oversees coaching and player personnel decisions. He has fallen down in all respects as a general manager. If reports are true, it sounds like he is a trustee of the Benson trust and also oversees (or is at least involved with) decisions outside of football including those involving Gayle's non-football businesses. I can't think of another GM, across any sport, that has a similar role. Loomis is seemingly untouchable and frankly, that comes across in his failings as Saints GM and in the snarky/dismissive/supercilious way he speaks to the media. The bucks stops with Loomis and I don't see a way we get better until he is removed as GM...and that may not happen until Gayle passes away and the team is sold.

 

[DaveXA]

Saints franchise wants Manning.. it's a storybook dream for this city.

People keep saying Arch to the Saints when he hasn't proven himself on the field yet. Let's see his play on the field before proclaiming him the next Saints Hall of Famer.

 

[jahsoul357]

The difference is a Payton 7-9 involved a top 5 scoring offense being sabotaged by a bottom 5 scoring defense. Payton's calling card, the offense, performed.

Meanwhile DA's defense keeps getting worse.

We were a top 5 scoring offense but if you really go back and look at some of those games during those 7-9 seasons

 

[jahsoul357]

People keep saying Arch to the Saints when he hasn't proven himself on the field yet. Let's see his play on the field before proclaiming him the next Saints Hall of Famer.

I feel the exact same way. If his last name wasn't Manning, he would be looked at as just a random QB. I want to see what he can actually do before hopping on the hype train.

 

[kcirdor]

Apparently...and maybe he will turn into a good NFL QB one day but to just assume he will, given the fact that he may not even be the best QB on his team is just a huge nonsensical leap to me.....

The boy has been to nearly 20 manning camps.. i believe in him.

 

[BreesusSaves]

We were a top 5 scoring offense but if you really go back and look at some of those games during those 7-9 seasons

Yeah but the offense wasn't a perpetual let down. They'd get right.

The Chargers and Broncos offenses are not good. They're perfect for a struggling defense to get right against. Annnnnnnd the Saints defense ensured both of those offenses improved on their season averages. Pain.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

I did not see exactly what Underhill posted, but it sounds as though the organization is floating a trial balloon to see how bad the blowback will be if he does come back. If Allen returns, the good news is that it increases the chances of Loomis being pushed into another job before he turns 80.

 

[SweetT]

Apparently...and maybe he will turn into a good NFL QB one day but to just assume he will, given the fact that he may not even be the best QB on his team is just a huge nonsensical leap to me.....

I get that. For me, I just think he has that “it” factor. Those Mannings are just different. Arch has had the absolute best training that money can buy, since he was almost a toddler. His team had an influx of energy when he got his first snap etc.

 

[kcirdor]

The difference is a Payton 7-9 involved a top 5 scoring offense being sabotaged by a bottom 5 scoring defense. Payton's calling card, the offense, performed.

Meanwhile DA's defense keeps getting worse.

That bottom 5 defense was sabatoged by payton. We'd score in 3 plays after the defense just had two back to back 15 play drives for field goals... then we'd score in 3 plays or 3 and out putting them back on the field... then we lose because payton burned all his timeouts on stupid challenges or failure to get the play in one time.... So yin yang.

 

[sfidc3]

The boy has been to nearly 20 manning camps.. i believe in him.

I get that. For me, I just think he has that “it” factor. Those Mannings are just different. Arch has had the absolute best training that money can buy, since he was almost a toddler. His team had an influx of energy when he got his first snap etc.

I'm sorry, above doesn't really provide any evidence that Arch is what folks think he may turn into.....It could happen..... but based on going to Manning camps (of course he would) and an "it" factor when he has played a total of 5 college games and is now benched in favor of another QB?

I'll wait and see how he plays over a season, because at this point no one knows and I find it just silly that folks think they do.....