Ukraine (17 Viewers)

[Sailorsaint]

I'm going with false flag/staged. Not much else makes any sense.

Not sure how well it worked though. The people in RoD welcomed Wagner with open arms, then staged a mini protest when the police and the regulars came back. And while it very well could have been staged, what was the purpose? To facilitate changes at the top? Leave UKR while saving face?

 

[DaveXA]

Not sure how well it worked though. The people in RoD welcomed Wagner with open arms, then staged a mini protest when the police and the regulars came back. And while it very well could have been staged, what was the purpose? To facilitate changes at the top? Leave UKR while saving face?

I think that's TBD. Hard to say until we get the full picture. Rumors are this was months in the making, and if that's the case, it had to be a pretty small circle of people who knew what it really was. Everyone else was just following orders.

 

[SamAndreas]

Not sure how well it worked though. The people in RoD welcomed Wagner with open arms, then staged a mini protest when the police and the regulars came back. And while it very well could have been staged, what was the purpose? To facilitate changes at the top? Leave UKR while saving face?

I assumed it was a staged thing from the beginning. Significant for some hidden purpose, not what it seemed.

I think Prigozhin had a larger purpose, and still has a larger propose. I think his being in exile is also a thing which is staged.

I've guessed what it is and have posted about that. I'm waiting to see how well I guessed his underlying purpose based on other factors I also see aligned with it.

I see the beginning of an end of this war.

 

[efil4stnias]

I assumed it was a staged thing from the beginning. Significant for some hidden purpose, not what it seemed.

I think Prigozhin had a larger purpose, and still has a larger propose. I think his being in exile is also a thing which is staged.

I've guessed what it is and have posted about that. I'm waiting to see how well I guessed his underlying purpose based on other factors I also see aligned with it.

I see the beginning of an end of this war.

I think there is a growing number of elites (and others ) inside Russia that fully grasp the ramifications of being ostracized by the rest of the world. Isolation is ok in small amounts. This would be equal to being on an island with no land for 100s of miles.

So I have a feeling they are beginning to coordinate and try to figure a way to push Putin aside, without a full on civil war and end the Ukraine debacle and try to repair Russians stance on world stage.

If this war keeps going, they know not only will it not end well, but it will be decades to recover from economically, politically and globally.

Being pals with North Korea, Iran and a few African countries doesn't make for good business partners.

 

[DaveXA]

I assumed it was a staged thing from the beginning. Significant for some hidden purpose, not what it seemed.

I think Prigozhin had a larger purpose, and still has a larger propose. I think his being in exile is also a thing which is staged.

I've guessed what it is and have posted about that. I'm waiting to see how well I guessed his underlying purpose based on other factors I also see aligned with it.

I see the beginning of an end of this war.

The war isn't over until Russia pays significant reparations to Ukraine to help them rebuild. Russia won't be off the hook just by withdrawing. They will have to cede Crimea and the rest of the occupied areas that belong to Ukraine. They need to feel the pain from their wrong decisions and agree on withdrawing their defenses from the border.

 

[Sailorsaint]

The war isn't over until Russia pays significant reparations to Ukraine to help them rebuild. Russia won't be off the hook just by withdrawing. They will have to cede Crimea and the rest of the occupied areas that belong to Ukraine. They need to feel the pain from their wrong decisions and agree on withdrawing their defenses from the border.

Sanctions will remain until reparations are made. There may even be a clause that requires putin to surrender to the court.

 

[SamAndreas]

 

[BigFrosty]

 

[efil4stnias]

Telegram channel just posted an execution video of RuAF deserter for Wagner.

Didn't watch but figure more to come.

Don't know how Wagner will return to the lines.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

Telegram channel just posted an execution video of RuAF deserter for Wagner.

Didn't watch but figure more to come.

Don't know how Wagner will return to the lines.

You mean a soldier in the RuAF who was trying to defect to Wagner (and caught by RuAF)?

 

[baarbogast]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[efil4stnias]

You mean a soldier in the RuAF who was trying to defect to Wagner (and caught by RuAF)?

Yes

 

[Saintman2884]

I think there is a growing number of elites (and others ) inside Russia that fully grasp the ramifications of being ostracized by the rest of the world. Isolation is ok in small amounts. This would be equal to being on an island with no land for 100s of miles.

So I have a feeling they are beginning to coordinate and try to figure a way to push Putin aside, without a full on civil war and end the Ukraine debacle and try to repair Russians stance on world stage.

If this war keeps going, they know not only will it not end well, but it will be decades to recover from economically, politically and globally.

Being pals with North Korea, Iran and a few African countries doesn't make for good business partners.

Trying to somewhat adequately repair Russia's international reputation, image and even its economy will still likely take decades to occur and honestly, as Dave pointed out in a later post, certain prerequisites will involve paying hundreds of millions, if not billions in dollars, in reparations to Ukraine to rebuild devastated cities' schools, hospitals, roads, apartment complexes, homes, many currently-destroyed basic or complex infrastructural damages that occured due to Russian bombs, mortar strikes, or drone attacks in Kherson, Bakhmut, Kviv, Kharviv, Donestsk, Dombas region, etc.

They'd have to give up Crimea and all other contested areas they now control in eastern Ukraine, some politicians in NATO countries like US and UK might try and push for Putin, and other high-ranking Russian generals, oligarchs to be handed over to International Tribunal in Hague to face war crimes (that ultimately might be an unrealistic request), Russian influence and naval power in the Black Sea would be significantly hampered, economically and militarily. Russia would have to feel some significant pain in terms of the consequences of their actions. It won't be nice, it will likely be very unpleasant, and seem extremely painful and no doubt, some sections, including influential parts of Russian society might deem it unfair and excessive. Their international image, reputation, and perception will also take a long, slow time to recover, if it ever fully does, regardless of binding treaties or armistices.

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure most anti-Putin oligarchs realize the high political and economic cost their going to have to pay, be seen to agree to it and be despised, loathed by large swaths in Russian society as traitors just to try and restore Russia's pre-2022 business, financial contacts. Just overthrowing Putin and his henchmen and telling NATO, EU, G7, "Oh, we're different, more rational, less aggressive types" isn't going to be enough, in of itself.

 

[efil4stnias]

Trying to somewhat adequately repair Russia's international reputation, image and even its economy will still likely take decades to occur and honestly, as Dave pointed out in a later post, certain prerequisites will involve paying hundreds of millions, if not billions in dollars, in reparations to Ukraine to rebuild devastated cities' schools, hospitals, roads, apartment complexes, homes, many currently-destroyed basic or complex infrastructural damages that occured due to Russian bombs, mortar strikes, or drone attacks in Kherson, Bakhmut, Kviv, Kharviv, Donestsk, Dombas region, etc.

They'd have to give up Crimea and all other contested areas they now control in eastern Ukraine, some politicians in NATO countries like US and UK might try and push for Putin, and other high-ranking Russian generals, oligarchs to be handed over to International Tribunal in Hague to face war crimes (that ultimately might be an unrealistic request), Russian influence and naval power in the Black Sea would be significantly hampered, economically and militarily. Russia would have to feel some significant pain in terms of the consequences of their actions. It won't be nice, it will likely be very unpleasant, and seem extremely painful and no doubt, some sections, including influential parts of Russian society might deem it unfair and excessive. Their international image, reputation, and perception will also take a long, slow time to recover, if it ever fully does, regardless of binding treaties or armistices.

The thing is, I'm not entirely sure most anti-Putin oligarchs realize the high political and economic cost their going to have to pay, be seen to agree to it and be despised, loathed by large swaths in Russian society as traitors just to try and restore Russia's pre-2022 business, financial contacts. Just overthrowing Putin and his henchmen and telling NATO, EU, G7, "Oh, we're different, more rational, less aggressive types" isn't going to be enough, in of itself.

Couldn't agree more.

I think the thought process is if we stop this sooner rather than later, it may help in those regards. And any light at the end of the tunnel, so to speak, that aids in ending this, is a plus. No matter how dim it is.