Ukraine (25 Viewers)

[efil4stnias]

This is not how we should be doing this.

Not including Ukraine is sinister.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/europe-says-it-is-committed-ukraine-ahead-russia-us-talks-2025-02-18/

Trying to keep politics out is too hard.

But I'm totally embarrassed and disgusted that my country, that I served in US Army, would strong arm a nation seeking democracy for the favor of a dictator of one of our oldest enemy. One that has spent decades attempting to undermine US status on the global stage.

I don't know how we got here and I don't know how we get out from this point forward.

I really hope Europe and Ukraine find a way thru this if the US tries to exclude them from any negotiations from the outset. I can't imagine what Zelensky is thinking right about now other than how the US completely lost the plot.

And I also lay blame at the feet of Biden who was given every single opportunity to uphold US status on a global stage, but fumbled repeatedly to be the Beacon on the Hill.

My goodness. I said on MAP board I never ever thought, as an American, I would be on the wrong side of history.

It saddens me.

 

[Sailorsaint]

What happened with the security guarantees that Ukraine was given in exchange for dismantling it's nuclear inventory? Is the wording in that agreement so bad that it doesn't cover an invasion by hostile forces?

 

[efil4stnias]

What happened with the security guarantees that Ukraine was given in exchange for dismantling it's nuclear inventory? Is the wording in that agreement so bad that it doesn't cover an invasion by hostile forces?

Doesn't matter at this point.

Apparently at press conference today, the POTUS said "You (Ukraine) should have never started it ( the war)..."

True story.

 

[HoustonSaint68]

Trying to keep politics out is too hard.

But I'm totally embarrassed and disgusted that my country, that I served in US Army, would strong arm a nation seeking democracy for the favor of a dictator of one of our oldest enemy. One that has spent decades attempting to undermine US status on the global stage.

I don't know how we got here and I don't know how we get out from this point forward.

I really hope Europe and Ukraine find a way thru this if the US tries to exclude them from any negotiations from the outset. I can't imagine what Zelensky is thinking right about now other than how the US completely lost the plot.

And I also lay blame at the feet of Biden who was given every single opportunity to uphold US status on a global stage, but fumbled repeatedly to be the Beacon on the Hill.

My goodness. I said on MAP board I never ever thought, as an American, I would be on the wrong side of history.

It saddens me.

For clarity, you accomplished the goal of avoiding commentary that might incite partisan bickering.

It's within bounds (at least on this and the Middle East threads) to express criticism or even disgust with administration policy on Ukraine. Just keep it to policy and avoid references to policy beyond Ukraine or, for example, potential personal motivations of the politicians involved.

Look, pretty much all of the regular participants of this thread have some level of dismay/disgust with the direction this is taking. But ultimately this is Andrus' private site, and he's provided a great place for us to share our time and thoughts. We owe it to him to respect the rules he has set, which ultimately keeps this a great place to hang out (even in our current sadness and anger on this thread).

 

[DaveXA]

Doesn't matter at this point.

Apparently at press conference today, the POTUS said "You (Ukraine) should have never started it ( the war)..."

True story.

If I said what I really think about this, would have to permaban myself.

Just a shockingly ignorant and stupid statement by the guy I refuse to name.

 

[brandon8283]

Just popping in here to provide apolitical, objective analysis of the US Government’s current foreign policy.



















































It’s forking bullshirt.

 

[boutte]

The US I was born into and lived in for 71 years won't exist by the time I check out.

 

[rail]

Doesn't matter at this point.

Apparently at press conference today, the POTUS said "You (Ukraine) should have never started it ( the war)..."

True story.

True story indeed.

Trump delivers another blow to Ukraine and a new boost to Putin | CNN Politics https://search.app/Z39WHMf7mghbTFX3A

 

[faceman]

Doesn't matter at this point.

Apparently at press conference today, the POTUS said "You (Ukraine) should have never started it ( the war)..."

True story.

His former VP set the record straight today.

 

[Consigliere]

Trump delivers another blow to Ukraine and a new boost to Putin | CNN Politics

One can only hope that he knows it is BS and is only doing this to lower Zelensky's expectations, and will do it to Putin too later.

One can only hope.

 

[livefromDC]

One can only hope that he knows it is BS and is only doing this to lower Zelensky's expectations, and will do it to Putin too later.

One can only hope.

You think waaaay too high of him, LOL.

 

[DaveXA]

One can only hope that he knows it is BS and is only doing this to lower Zelensky's expectations, and will do it to Putin too later.

One can only hope.

I mean, it's hard to have hope after reading this. You can judge for yourself.

 

[Devildog]

One can only hope that he knows it is BS and is only doing this to lower Zelensky's expectations, and will do it to Putin too later.

One can only hope.

Hope in one hand a crap in the other and see which one fills up faster.

And who would have thought Mike forking Pence would be a voice of reason?

 

[Consigliere]

You think waaaay too high of him, LOL.

I said "hope" not "think"!!!

 

[efil4stnias]

When Bessent presented Minerals deal, Zelensky was given 1 hour to decide



US then gave EU/NATO members this- 3 weeks to agree on Ukraine surrender terms or US pulls out Europe