UnitedHealth CEO shot

[Saintman2884]

Well we could change legislation to overhaul the tax code to increase tax rates on billionaires and the companies they own, create a single-payer healthcare system, and fix social security.

Oh that’s right, legislators are part of the corrupt system.

And that's where we agree we're all running around like coked-up chickens bawking and screaming how much we want blood until we realize there's more then just one little layer we have to deal with. We could change or overhaul our tax code so billionaires pay more? Sure, go ahead. Would it change their overall corporate behavior? Maybe a little bit, but not enough that rampant corruption, graft or cronyism wouldn't still happen. Even in E.U. countries where billionaires pay more and single-payer, universal health care systems exist, you still have corrupt, amoral businessman, health care CEO's and executives who skim off the system and in some cases, it might be worse because in places like France, Italy, Germany, and U.K. these people a lot more closely with the government who runs and monitors these socialized health care systems. Often times, they are public service employees, not private CEO's. We can regulate tax codes to make billionaires pay more or create fairer, equitable healthcare systems, but we can't necessarily regulate how billionaires make their money in the first place nor prevent guys like this UHC CEO from screwing people over? It will just be somebody else in some other sector of the economy or even worse, the government.

One side's more corrupt than the other, I'll give you that but the other side still doesn't want to blow it all up even if they were in power. Fringe "unique" types like Bernie Sanders or AOC are usually kept out in the hallways and even they, terps, aren't as radical as most people make them out to be if one truly examines their policy positions or ideals. I would hardly compare Bernie Sanders to true, past progressives like Eugene V. Debs, one of the AFL-CIO's founders.

 

[Saintman2884]

not nearly the same thing as systematically denying legitimate claims that results in countless deaths for profit.

Not even close.

You obviously have a personal axe to grind against doctors, and it's clouding your logic here.

I know that, and I even said so in my original reply. I was trying to remind you that doctors are just as capable of corrupt, frankly stupid, and incompetent in how they diagnose and treat people and get away with it and for profit, too. Not nearly on the same enormous scale and scope but it does exist, SWJJ and I will not be told that it doesn't exist or shouldn't be pointed out. Bad doctors can be difficult to prosecute I've come to discover because in many places, many of their own colleagues, fellow doctors, physicians are reluctant to testify against them out of fear for their medical careers, or futures or they refuse to testify against "one of their own". I've had more then a few personal injury lawyers tell me this, SWJJ, one very prominent firm here in Mobile told me and my father that a couple of years ago. I don't have a personal grudge against doctors, SWJJ, but I have had enough experiences with them and my family that their are some bad doctors, too and they need to be held accountable. But I would never tell the wife or kids of some guilty, amoral doctor " fork you, too" because their not responsible for his crimes.

Low-level incompetence/corruption is still terrible and shameless even if its nowhere near on the same scale as corrupt UHC CEO's. There's still doing many of the same things even if the scale and scope of their victims is infinitely lower and localized. We don't ignore it, either.

 

[Saintman2884]

A lot of the idiots in the Jan 6 insurrection were turned in by family and friends.

Dozens of Capitol rioters were turned in by childhood friends, family members, colleagues and ex-lovers who watched them storm the building

Some tipsters described watching their friend, family member or coworker develop increasingly extreme beliefs in the time leading up to the January 6 riot.

www.cbsnews.com

Would it still be stupid to willing say "fork them or their families" out of spite or hatred for raising dumb kids or children who committed treason?Now their in jail!!! Ha Ha!!!!Ha!! That sort of dehumanization I could never go along with. To cruelly or coldly mock them even though they had nothing to do with their siblings action or behavior?

That was more my point, Terps. We don't dehumanize other people--family, friends, or relatives of guilty evil SOB's who didnt commit or conceive these schemes which profitizes huge wealth off human suffering.

 

[Madmarsha]

I wanna see the full video

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

In the case of France, it took about 100 years after the French Revolution broke out to really get a republican-style system of government (Third Republic) the original revolutionaries wanted. I don't think you and others would have wanted to live through Robespierre's Reign of Terror where thousands of killed sometimes for "looking like a criminal" i.e. thought-crimes, "counter-revolutionaries", drowned in mass barges, mass shootings in front of adoring, cheering crowds, guillotining innocent French men, women and children and then allowing an enlightened depsot to take power who was territorially aggressive who set France at war with all of Europe for the next 25 years.

A lot of unnecessary dead bodies had to pile up to reach a more democratic France. You mention the 13th Amendment here in the U.S, well it took a century and several landmark SCOTUS cases along with a twenty year legal, political and sometimes police actions to force many Deep South states to end state-enforced segregation laws in schools, hospitals, private and public employment/institutions. Their were countless threats, bombings, public and private attacks on civil rights activists, organizations outside of bus stations, supermarkets, homes, businesses that made the process of desegregation/integration harder.

In the case of apartheid South Africa: yes, Apartheid is gone but SA still remains a deeply flawed, corrupt, extremely violent country and society in some respects and although Nelson Mandela was a great leader, many of his ANC heirs have not shown his same honesty, candidness, openness, and drive for a truly more racially-equal and just South Africa. Are they better then post-colonial Zimbabwe, Angola, or Mozambique? Sure, but those aren't exactly high bars of excellence to surpass.

And sometimes, you don't get a more democratic nation? You get the IRA/Sinn Fein, Red Guards, Belder-Meinhof Gang in West Germany from the late 60's-80's bombing, killing U.S. troops, kidnapping West German businessman and then killing them because they hate consumerism too much or _____ murdered person's parents were Nazis or former Wehrmacht/Waffen-SS soldiers.

I’m pretty sure you’re not advocating to keep slavery or apartheid or whatever monarchy/oligarchy is in place
So either your saying that the revolution needs to be more thorough- a ‘roots and all’ approach
Or
You’re saying that the Revolution needs to happen much earlier so the toxicity doesn’t spread faster than it can be pruned

Maybe you’re framing it as a trolley problem- pull the lever and send the train over these 5 CEOs or do nothing and let millions upon millions die

 

[B4YOU]

Kaiser is a non-profit, pro-Union service provider. UHC made 22B in profit last year. I have Kaiser. It's the cheapest HMO option and I've received zero pushback on seeing specialists.

 

[Saintman2884]

I’m pretty sure you’re not advocating to keep slavery or apartheid or whatever monarchy/oligarchy is in place
So either your saying that the revolution needs to be more thorough- a ‘roots and all’ approach
Or
You’re saying that the Revolution needs to happen much earlier so the toxicity doesn’t spread faster than it can be pruned

Maybe you’re framing it as a trolley problem- pull the lever and send the train over these 5 CEOs or do nothing and let millions upon millions die

I'm saying those revolutions you mentioned killed, murdered a lot of unnecessary people who didnt commit a crime and even if their ideals ended up working, that was also two hundred years later and who pays or has to answer that forking bloody bill where more good, innocent people die to realize this happier world and trust me, in the end, we will have to forking pay for it.

I'm also saying that the trolley problem will end up killing hundreds of thousands, in not millions more then just a bunch of dead CEO's and sometimes a worser system comes along that devours people like you along with it. You talk about it in the abstract like it doesn't mean anything or can't imagine your ideals being corrupted by somebody else, but it often has and likely would corrupt yours. It never ends or stops with just the people you hate or oppose once you're on top making decisions. If one isn't sober or honest enough to admit that, then nothing I can say will make them understand what I'm trying to say.

Their also was no revolution that ended Apartheid, no forceful military response, it was done at the ballot box that voted out De Klerk and elected Mandela's as SA's first multiracial president. Their was obviously a lot of tension, pre-vote, but at least South Africa didnt end up like some corrupt, broken regime like Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Mozambique. A regime that was more oppressive, violent, and corrupt then the one that preceded it. And while slavery was abolished after a million or so Americans died during the Civil War, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed and enacted through a democratic process.

Sometimes, democracy is slow and it isn't always perfect but meaningful reform and a more peaceful approach works better then piles of bodies and unrealized, distorted versions of utopian ideals take shape. I would mention HIS NAME, but that would be too easy and while its historically relevant, you're tired of hearing about his name or his former regime.

 

[Saintman2884]

I’m pretty sure you’re not advocating to keep slavery or apartheid or whatever monarchy/oligarchy is in place
So either your saying that the revolution needs to be more thorough- a ‘roots and all’ approach
Or
You’re saying that the Revolution needs to happen much earlier so the toxicity doesn’t spread faster than it can be pruned

Maybe you’re framing it as a trolley problem- pull the lever and send the train over these 5 CEOs or do nothing and let millions upon millions die

BTW, you mentioned France earlier: how are they doing right now? They just passed a no-confidence measure which means their political system is in a bit of free-fall where the moderates are being pushed aside by the left-wing and the far-right Fronte Nacional party led by the daughter of a notorious Nazi sympathizer/collaborator Marie Le Pen who very nearly won the French presidential elections last year (first round in fact). Because French politics is usually so chaotic and divided, that means either Le Pen or a coalition of left-wing parties are going to replace Macron since a majority of the French populace believes the moderates can't get the job done.

Marie Le Pen isn't like her hated father, she's more charismatic, comes across as more reasonable, sociable, not as openly radical or dangerous or immediately as fringe as her father did but if she were elected, she would cause more then solve a lot of France's problems, Guido. 25-30 years ago, Fronte National was just some fringe, far-right anti-immigrant party, now its one of France's biggest political parties or factions.

Same thing with AfD in eastern Germany, their the largest political party in the former GDR Germany, how long before that spreads to southern or western parts of Germany?

Indeed, Bernie probably was right in what he said about a month ago, although 20-25 years ago how could he have imagined it would be his ideas they hijacked or co-opted?

 

[Vega$$aint]

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

I'm saying those revolutions you mentioned killed, murdered a lot of unnecessary people who didnt commit a crime and even if their ideals ended up working, that was also two hundred years later and who pays or has to answer that forking bloody bill where more good, innocent people die to realize this happier world and trust me, in the end, we will have to forking pay for it.

I'm also saying that the trolley problem will end up killing hundreds of thousands, in not millions more then just a bunch of dead CEO's and sometimes a worser system comes along that devours people like you along with it. You talk about it in the abstract like it doesn't mean anything or can't imagine your ideals being corrupted by somebody else, but it often has and likely would corrupt yours. It never ends or stops with just the people you hate or oppose once you're on top making decisions. If one isn't sober or honest enough to admit that, then nothing I can say will make them understand what I'm trying to say.

Their also was no revolution that ended Apartheid, no forceful military response, it was done at the ballot box that voted out De Klerk and elected Mandela's as SA's first multiracial president. Their was obviously a lot of tension, pre-vote, but at least South Africa didnt end up like some corrupt, broken regime like Mugabe's Zimbabwe or Mozambique. A regime that was more oppressive, violent, and corrupt then the one that preceded it. And while slavery was abolished after a million or so Americans died during the Civil War, the Civil Rights and Voting Rights Acts were passed and enacted through a democratic process.

Sometimes, democracy is slow and it isn't always perfect but meaningful reform and a more peaceful approach works better then piles of bodies and unrealized, distorted versions of utopian ideals take shape. I would mention HIS NAME, but that would be too easy and while its historically relevant, you're tired of hearing about his name or his former regime.

I assume you mean Stalin and not Jesus
KIDDING
But using Rumsfeld’s Known Knowns quadrant

A: Kill 5 CEOs and hopefully democracy is restored
B: Kill 5 CEOs and something just as bad takes over
C: Don’t kill CEOs and hope for democracy in 100 years
D: Don’t kill CEOs and get worse and worse oligarchy leading almost certainly to a way bloodier revolution

Since the US already has the democratic structure in place (vs the other worse case scenarios you offered)
A seems the most logical

 

[Saintman2884]

I assume you mean Stalin and not Jesus
KIDDING
But using Rumsfeld’s Known Knowns quadrant

A: Kill 5 CEOs and hopefully democracy is restored
B: Kill 5 CEOs and something just as bad takes over
C: Don’t kill CEOs and hope for democracy in 100 years
D: Don’t kill CEOs and get worse and worse oligarchy leading almost certainly to a way bloodier revolution

Since the US already has the democratic structure in place (vs the other worse case scenarios you offered)
A seems the most logical

I think Options A and B are probably the most logical, except I would imprison or ban the damned CEO's from ever doing business in medical industry again instead of kill. I realize you and others might disapprove, but we're not some medieval Islamic theocratic regime like Iran or Afghanistan, I'd like to think we're a little more civilized then them.

Option A seems more like an ideal way to solve it, while Option B seems more realistic as a solution although I would argue Options C or D are also realistic because while guys like Brian Thompson might get convicted or worse, you might be able to convict some of the lower-hanging mid-tier executives, the more obscure, powerful types are harder to put handcuffs on. You have to have a relentless, bulldog SOB prosecutor or AG who isn't afraid to step on toes like Robert Mueller to get convictions on these high-level criminals and sometimes, even they can be out-lasted or out-flanked.

I don't say that because I want to but lets face it, Guido, we have way too many hotheads in our society right now

 

[Mojomajik9]

You’re all going to look pretty silly when it turns out he was murdered not because of healthcare but because he was having an affair with another rich guy’s wife or involved in very shady business deals.

 

[guidomerkinsrules]

You’re all going to look pretty silly when it turns out he was murdered not because of healthcare but because he was having an affair with another rich guy’s wife or involved in very shady business deals.

Keep it ambiguous- make both marital cheaters and corrupt CEOs look over their shoulders and anticipate bad consequences for their actions

 

[El Caliente]

Keep it ambiguous- make both marital cheaters and corrupt CEOs look over their shoulders and anticipate bad consequences for their actions

I’m just glad that light is being shed on how bad faith health insurance is.

LET THE REVOLUTION COMMENCE!