Was Jesus a socialist? (2 Viewers)

[SBin2008]

A little something for the OP.

 

[SBin2008]

I guess he chose death.

 

[TulsaSaint]

Asking if Jesus was a socialist (or a capitalist) is like asking if Nero was a Democrat or Republican or if Plato was a continental or analytic philosopher. We can't take labels that were invented millennia later and apply them retroactively to people for whom they would have no meaning.

 

[67Bndwagnfan]

I never understood how a lot of conservatives are very religious but despise socialism so much, when Jesus himself preached socialist ideals. Just to be clear this is not intended to offend anyone and I apologize if it comes off that way.

He certainly wasn't pro-big business and I don't recall him over charging for health care or raising his rates because he knew people needed his services.

I think he was a Blue Dog Democrat.

 

[67Bndwagnfan]

if you're an atheist, why are you so concerned with people following the teachings of Christ?
why don't you go outside with a megaphone or something?

it is a subject that is discussed often here. it's just that the topic you felt the need to create a thread for has been discussed ad nauseum.

Dude, you've been a member since Dec and I think the Fluer De Lis has gone strait to your head.

Get over yourself, please for the sake of the rest of us.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

Does anyone think that the statements attributed to Jesus--the Gospels after all were written how many decades or generations after his death--were a reflection of their time? Certainly, with regard to economic views, they were, reflecting a world where the division between the relative wealthy and poor was great and where economic growth was non-existent.

 

[dagimlet]

Does anyone think that the statements attributed to Jesus--the Gospels after all were written how many decades or generations after his death--were a reflection of their time? Certainly, with regard to economic views, they were, reflecting a world where the division between the relative wealthy and poor was great and where economic growth was non-existent.

I think that's a really good point, especially the economic growth part. I think when the economy is doing badly, as it is now, there is greater pressure to just "slice the pie," rather than grow it.

I had honestly never thought of it that way.

 

[RJ in Lafayette]

By "socialism", I am thinking of government ownership of the means of production, not some tilt, however slight, in the balance between government and the free market in things economic or even a more balanced distribution of income. However, it seems clear that Christ favored a more balanced distribution of income.

There is a great line in a year one episode of the West Wing about the death penalty that was entitled something like "Take This Sabbath." In the episode, a federal prisoner is being executed at the end of the day, a Sunday, after midnight, and President Barlett dislikes the death penalty but is not going to stay the execution for political reasons. There is a scene when presidential aide Toby and his rabbi are disagreeing about the morality of the death penalty. Toby cities Biblical passages supporting death penalty. The rabbi then cities other passages from the Bible and the Torah supporting the death penalty for adultery and homosexuality and then says something to the effect: "Given what we know, those writings represented the best wisdom of their time. But by today's standards, they are just plain wrong."

And this of course is the really interesting question, isn't it. The Bible consists of stories that were written by someone years after he had heard the stories from somebody who heard the stories years earlier from someone who saw what happened years earlier. Is the New Testament account literally true--and the Gospels do in many instances differ? Or is it simply that the essence of the account is true? And if the account is true, does it convey in every instance what Jesus Christ as God thought an eternal verity?

 

[Geldo]

I'm not sure if Jesus was a socialist, but certainly many early socialists were inspired by Jesus's teachings at the sermon on the mount. The catholic saint Thomas Moore was one of the first to take the ideas in Matthew 5 and build them into a manifesto of sorts. His work 'Utopia' is one of the pioneering works that helped establish some of the founding principles of socialism.

For all that Socialism is misunderstood and maligned on these boards, the fact remains that most of its 19th and 20th century leaders were not inspired by the idea of building a police state, but by a true desire to allieviate the poverty and suffering that sprang up alongside the industrial revolution.

Robert Owen, the Welshman whose ideas are crucial to any understanding of the development of Utopian Socialism wanted to create a better world based on social justice, opportunity, and communal kinship.

Karl Marx, despite the astrocities committed by Stalin in his name, was profoundly concerned about the plight of working people, as was his friend and colleague Engels.

In my opinion true socialism was inspired by Jesus, rather than the other way around.

 

[dagimlet]

Geldo, don't you think in a sense we have "outgrown" socialism? The nation as a whole (and yes, I know you're British, but let me continue) has something like an 11% poverty rate. We have some aspects of socialism in our system, and I do admit that I admire certain elements of the more socialistic European systems, but I think we're doing pretty well as a country without having to redistribute the wealth to any great degree.

Thoughts?

 

[dtc]

By "socialism", I am thinking of government ownership of the means of production, not some tilt, however slight, in the balance between government and the free market in things economic or even a more balanced distribution of income. However, it seems clear that Christ favored a more balanced distribution of income.

There is a great line in a year one episode of the West Wing about the death penalty that was entitled something like "Take This Sabbath." In the episode, a federal prisoner is being executed at the end of the day, a Sunday, after midnight, and President Barlett dislikes the death penalty but is not going to stay the execution for political reasons. There is a scene when presidential aide Toby and his rabbi are disagreeing about the morality of the death penalty. Toby cities Biblical passages supporting death penalty. The rabbi then cities other passages from the Bible and the Torah supporting the death penalty for adultery and homosexuality and then says something to the effect: "Given what we know, those writings represented the best wisdom of their time. But by today's standards, they are just plain wrong."

And this of course is the really interesting question, isn't it. The Bible consists of stories that were written by someone years after he had heard the stories from somebody who heard the stories years earlier from someone who saw what happened years earlier. Is the New Testament account literally true--and the Gospels do in many instances differ? Or is it simply that the essence of the account is true? And if the account is true, does it convey in every instance what Jesus Christ as God thought an eternal verity?

Heresy. What you are doing is nothing short of doubting the word of god. The next thing you'll do will be to question whether the Constitution may have had flaws or require re-interpretation in the age of space travel.

 

[aksarben saint]

I would say the answer to this is to look what it says about Capitalism/Business in the Old Testament. (After all this is written by "Profits" who were spoken to by God, The Trinity, 3 in 1 etc.)

There is plenty references in the Old & New Testaments, that explain the Employee / Employer relationship. God never condemned "Capitalism/Business" for being in existence, but he did address the obligations that employers had to employees. And the responsibility for people to themselves, to WORK and be productive to society:

"He who has been stealing must steal no longer, but must work, doing something useful with his own hands, that he may have something to share with those in need."
...Eph 4:28

A great deal is also written about the ability of land ownership and making it productive, making a profit is ok, debt is bad etc.. as well.


Bottomline, that is how I "Justify" myself being a Christian and a Conservative at the same time.

Amazing isn't it? That I can come to that conclusion after reading the ENTIRE word of God and not let the let the "question" get framed into what just Jesus had said but what God the Father had also stated. (I don't think the Trinity, Father, Son & Holy Spirit, would conterdict themselves.)

 

[GhostFace]

you don't bring anything new to the table. hence the tepid response.

You post, yet you bring nothing new either.

 

[dagimlet]

You post, yet you bring nothing new either.

I'm sorry, did you say something?

 

[mister pc]

I think where I've had my own issues with socialism is that it seems that socialism seeks to delegate compassion to the government, rather than exhort it as the duty of every person.

the word democracy is derived from the greek word dēmokratía which literally means "will of the people". because we are a democracy, federal aid for the poor can be seen as collective fulfillment of our duties as individuals.