Watching Football on TV (LED/OLED) (1 Viewer)

[DaveXA]

It is a curved OLED with 3D so that kind of justifies it.

Yeah, I looked at the curved TVs. Not really a fan. My 2 sons have curved monitors for their PCs, those are pretty great.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

Yeah, I looked at the curved TVs. Not really a fan. My 2 sons have curved monitors, those are pretty great.

I couldn't afford to get the E6P and I believe the B6P didn't have 3D so I had to go with the curved C6P. I like it but every now and then something on the screen looks off for a second. Depends on what's happening and I never paid attention to if it's a movie or sports.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

I do think that the curved screen helps with the 3D but I'm not an expert. I've said it several times before but it's as good or better than Imax 3D. Watching the Metallica Through The Never in 3D is awesome. Saw it in Imax 3D when it came out and it was so awesome hearing an entire Metallica concert in a theater especially Imax sound. They forked me over though because they moved the time up and I didn't see that so I missed the first 5-10 minutes.

 

[DavidM]

We finally got annoyed enough with our Samsung Q90T that my wife and I bought an LG 65” C1 OLED Saturday evening. It’s far and away the best out-of-the-box picture quality I’ve experienced. Every Samsung we’ve owned has had some screen issue we’ve had to live with, or in the case of the one we had before the Q90, a KS series model (4K, flat panel) the picture was nice enough but it died an early death. Some of that, I think, was attributed to price point or tech at the time, but the Q90 has been a letdown for us, and at a similar price we paid last year, IIRC, to this LG. Satisfied with going up from a 55” also. Wasn’t sure with the layout of our space.

I’ve made some minor adjustments to the LG, and when I have time, I’ll get more into calibration, but it’s really nice as-is.

 

[Zztop]

^

this example above is why I advocate buying through a retail location with a good return policy. Costco is the gold standard in my opinion, with their branded credit card you get a 4 year extended warranty and they also have a generous 90 day return policy. During this holiday season some other stores have extended return periods, some until January.
The other day my friend was telling me about a tv he was shopping for, he found it for like $200 cheaper elsewhere online. $200 less but it only came with a 1 year mfr warranty. If he went about getting a 3rd party extended warranty it would have been roughly $350+ more. I have less confidence in LED tvs due to potential DSE (see link here for more info on what DSE is) unless buying from a store that makes returns/exchanges hassle free. On the other hand, OLED won't be suitable for all rooms, and no technology is without weaknesses.

Anyways I feel like updating and consolidating my list of recommendations:

(LED TVs)

Samsung Qn90a: (also known as "QN9 series" at costco) pros: * wide angle viewing filter that helps somewhat with off angle color washout * best anti glare filter of LED tvs * very bright to counter rooms with lots of natural light * currently the best LED tv for gaming cons: * colors "pop" and are vibrant but are inaccurate as a * potential panel uniformity issues (DSE) inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

Sony X95j: (x90j is a lesser model and sits between the tcl R646 and Qn90a) pros: * more natural colors vs Qn90a * very bright to counter rooms with lots of natural light cons: * currently more expensive than the Qn90a * weaker gaming features * anti glare filter not as good as Qn90a * possible DSE issues inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

Tcl R646 (hisense u7g/u8g are the closest competitors and both are inferior to it) pros: * currently best bargain value considering it is $600+ less vs the two above * almost as good picture quality as the two above cons: * weaker in most areas compared to the 2 above but maybe an acceptable tradeoff due to price * reviews mention software seems to be a buggy (could be fixed down the road with firmware updates) * only available at best buy * possible DSE issues inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

(OLED)

LG C1: (the LG G1 is nearly identical to the C1 but has a 5 year factory warranty. The G1 is specifically made for wall mounting) pros: * best OLED for gaming * best contrast & infinite blacks that are superior to LED tvs * image & colors don't degrade with off-axis viewing as with LED tvs cons: *can't get as bright as LED tvs so image would suffer in rooms with lots of natural light/windows etc

Sony A80J: (the A90j is the "master" series and is factory calibrated and has heatsink technology to push the panel brighter) pros: * slightly better color accuracy in movies vs LG C1 * best contrast & infinite blacks that are superior to LED tvs * image & colors don't degrade with off-axis viewing as with LED tvs cons: * more expensive than LG * lesser gaming features than LG * can't get as bright as LED tvs so image suffer in rooms with lots of natural light/windows etc

 

[DaveXA]

^

this example above is why I advocate buying through a retail location with a good return policy. Costco is the gold standard in my opinion, with their branded credit card you get a 4 year extended warranty and they also have a generous 90 day return policy. During this holiday season some other stores have extended return periods, some until January.
The other day my friend was telling me about a tv he was shopping for, he found it for like $200 cheaper elsewhere online. $200 less but it only came with a 1 year mfr warranty. If he went about getting a 3rd party extended warranty it would have been roughly $350+ more. I have less confidence in LED tvs due to potential DSE (see link here for more info on what DSE is) unless buying from a store that makes returns/exchanges hassle free. On the other hand, OLED won't be suitable for all rooms, and no technology is without weaknesses.

Anyways I feel like updating and consolidating my list of recommendations:

(LED TVs)

Samsung Qn90a: (also known as "QN9 series" at costco) pros: * wide angle viewing filter that helps somewhat with off angle color washout * best anti glare filter of LED tvs * very bright to counter rooms with lots of natural light * currently the best LED tv for gaming cons: * colors "pop" and are vibrant but are inaccurate as a * potential panel uniformity issues (DSE) inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

Sony X95j: pros: * more natural colors vs Qn90a * very bright to counter rooms with lots of natural light cons: * currently more expensive than the Qn90a * weaker gaming features * anti glare filter not as good as Qn90a * possible DSE issues inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

Tcl R646: pros: * currently best bargain value considering it is $600+ less vs the two above * almost as good picture quality as the two above cons: * weaker in most areas compared to the 2 above but maybe an acceptable tradeoff due to price * reviews mention software seems to be a buggy (could be fixed down the road with firmware updates) * only available at best buy * possible DSE issues inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

(OLED)

LG C1: pros: * best OLED for gaming * best contrast & infinite blacks that are superior to LED tvs * image & colors don't degrade with off-axis viewing as with LED tvs cons: *can't get as bright as LED tvs so image would suffer in rooms with lots of natural light/windows etc

Sony A80J: pros: * slightly better color accuracy in movies vs LG C1 * best contrast & infinite blacks that are superior to LED tvs * image & colors don't degrade with off-axis viewing as with LED tvs cons: * more expensive than LG * lesser gaming features than LG * can't get as bright as LED tvs so image suffer in rooms with lots of natural light/windows etc

Tbh, I have a fairly bright living room with a good bit of sunlight and I haven't had any issues with the Sony (A80J). I'm really happy with the TV so far. No issues. I got it for $1799 at Costco. A little pricey, but for a higher end OLED not too bad.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

^

this example above is why I advocate buying through a retail location with a good return policy. Costco is the gold standard in my opinion, with their branded credit card you get a 4 year extended warranty and they also have a generous 90 day return policy. During this holiday season some other stores have extended return periods, some until January.
The other day my friend was telling me about a tv he was shopping for, he found it for like $200 cheaper elsewhere online. $200 less but it only came with a 1 year mfr warranty. If he went about getting a 3rd party extended warranty it would have been roughly $350+ more. I have less confidence in LED tvs due to potential DSE (see link here for more info on what DSE is) unless buying from a store that makes returns/exchanges hassle free. On the other hand, OLED won't be suitable for all rooms, and no technology is without weaknesses.

Anyways I feel like updating and consolidating my list of recommendations:

(LED TVs)

Samsung Qn90a: (also known as "QN9 series" at costco) pros: * wide angle viewing filter that helps somewhat with off angle color washout * best anti glare filter of LED tvs * very bright to counter rooms with lots of natural light * currently the best LED tv for gaming cons: * colors "pop" and are vibrant but are inaccurate as a * potential panel uniformity issues (DSE) inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

Sony X95j: pros: * more natural colors vs Qn90a * very bright to counter rooms with lots of natural light cons: * currently more expensive than the Qn90a * weaker gaming features * anti glare filter not as good as Qn90a * possible DSE issues inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

Tcl R646: pros: * currently best bargain value considering it is $600+ less vs the two above * almost as good picture quality as the two above cons: * weaker in most areas compared to the 2 above but maybe an acceptable tradeoff due to price * reviews mention software seems to be a buggy (could be fixed down the road with firmware updates) * only available at best buy * possible DSE issues inherent to many LED tvs * colors start to wash out if sitting off angle past 30 degrees

(OLED)

LG C1: pros: * best OLED for gaming * best contrast & infinite blacks that are superior to LED tvs * image & colors don't degrade with off-axis viewing as with LED tvs cons: *can't get as bright as LED tvs so image would suffer in rooms with lots of natural light/windows etc

Sony A80J: pros: * slightly better color accuracy in movies vs LG C1 * best contrast & infinite blacks that are superior to LED tvs * image & colors don't degrade with off-axis viewing as with LED tvs cons: * more expensive than LG * lesser gaming features than LG * can't get as bright as LED tvs so image suffer in rooms with lots of natural light/windows etc

Why so expensive on the extended warranty? I went through square trade and got a 4 year warranty on my tv for under 250.

 

[Zztop]

Tbh, I have a fairly bright living room with a good bit of sunlight and I haven't had any issues with the Sony (A80J). I'm really happy with the TV so far. No issues. I got it for $1799 at Costco. A little pricey, but for a higher end OLED not too bad.

yeah I know. I'm the one that told you about it lol
You also got it from costco so you could have easily returned it and gotten something else if it didn't work well for your room.

Theres many examples you can find out there, but here is one:


(timestamped to where he compares how well last year's top lg oled handles reflections vs a samsung LED)

Basically speaking reflected light will change the appearance of the light generated by the tv, which in turn changes how the colors are perceived and also washes out some of the details. As a rule the more light there is in the room, the brighter the backlight of the tv should be. It won't eliminate but rather help mitigate.

I'm just trying to inform people of the pros and cons of each technology. Due to the way they are made, LED will be brighter and able to overcome light and reflections better (see example in the video above).

Why so expensive on the extended warranty? I went through square trade and got a 4 year warranty on my tv for under 250.

Because price varies by how much the tv costs? 4 year 3rd party warranty + $3000 tv = more than $250

I forgot to mention in my list that the LG G1 comes with a 5 year factory warranty, which is rare. It is virtually identical to the C1, except the G1 is specifically made to be wall mounted

 

[DavidM]

Tbh, I have a fairly bright living room with a good bit of sunlight and I haven't had any issues with the Sony (A80J). I'm really happy with the TV so far. No issues. I got it for $1799 at Costco. A little pricey, but for a higher end OLED not too bad.

Getting the same experience with the LG. I understand the explanation and the issue that Zztop described, just wonder how much of a concern it really would be for most people. While we mostly watch in the evenings in dim light, I haven’t noticed anything objectionable during the day or when the room is well lit.

Zztop, I could have returned the Q90, and perhaps should have. When I read about issues others were having, something I saw repeated were claims that a lot of the panels apparently suffered from clouding or dirty screen effect, and there was no guarantee I wouldn’t end up worse off, as others reported they did. 4K content is generally really nice on that TV. The backlighting issue is an annoyance in certain circumstances, and flickering in dark scenes was occasionally experienced, though adjusting settings mostly made that go away. And as I said, this has been a common experience for me with the Samsung TVs I’ve owned, so I’ve accepted it as a downside. Just surprised to see it on a more expensive model, but maybe shouldn’t have been.

Anyway, the LG is living up to the great reviews so far.

 

[Zztop]

Getting the same experience with the LG. I understand the explanation and the issue that Zztop described, just wonder how much of a concern it really would be for most people. While we mostly watch in the evenings in dim light, I haven’t noticed anything objectionable during the day or when the room is well lit.

Zztop, I could have returned the Q90, and perhaps should have. When I read about issues others were having, something I saw repeated were claims that a lot of the panels apparently suffered from clouding or dirty screen effect, and there was no guarantee I wouldn’t end up worse off, as others reported they did. 4K content is generally really nice on that TV. The backlighting issue is an annoyance in certain circumstances, and flickering in dark scenes was occasionally experienced, though adjusting settings mostly made that go away. And as I said, this has been a common experience for me with the Samsung TVs I’ve owned, so I’ve accepted it as a downside. Just surprised to see it on a more expensive model, but maybe shouldn’t have been.

Anyway, the LG is living up to the great reviews so far.

Buying a high dollar item I typically run a lot of tests looking for a flaw, but you are right about panel lottery theres no guarantee you'd get a replacement which would have been "cleaner". I think SOME stores will let you unbox it and test it in stores, but it that might not be an official policy. DSE can be pretty annoying from what I've read. I've seen people comment as: "once you see it you can't un-see it". I don't think I personally could buy and LED tv online that had no option to return it to a store. I don't think it is limited to just a samsung thing though, because global consolidation results in only a few companies making LED panels nowadays. For OLED tvs LG basically supplies everyone else.

so for the rest in regards to viewing:
A lot comes down to mindset and intent. Say if you were a cinephile, you'd want the best conditions and accuracy. What is fine for one won't be for others, nbd. Each person is different there is no one-size-fits-all type of answer. There are some Tvs that perform better (or worse) in certain situations, but those situations and results will vary from person to person, as will what they find acceptable or objectionable as you put it. Like for you DSE far outweighed the rest. I'm actually with you on this, I don't think I could tolerate it myself hah

I just put out info and let people weigh the pros and cons. There are actually some models on a higher tier than the ones I listed, but I doubt many here would be looking to spend $3700 on a 65 inch A90j (even if it is technically superior to all other sony/lg OLED tvs).

 

[DavidM]

@Zztop I do appreciate the information you and others have provided here. This thread further raised my interest in OLED and our decision to buy another TV. It’s the direction I should have gone last time, because black levels and contrast are important to how I perceive a satisfying viewing experience. Also, Dolby Vision is a noticeable improvement over HDR 10 or whatever the Q90T has.

As it is, the Q90 is a much nicer TV than we ever would have bought for the bedroom, but that’s where we’ll use it now, so it works out. The viewing distance is farther away, which helps minimize the flaws that were more noticeable in the living room. And since it won’t be the primary TV, it will be easier to live with.

I don’t mean to disparage Samsung as a brand, but it’s what I have the most experience with. I also have read about the limited suppliers of LED panels.

I did buy a Sony once that had good reviews, but returned it because no amount of adjusting could eliminate the jittery picture, and ended up with yet another Samsung. Otherwise, I had an Olevia way back, which ended up being solid for the time, and various small cheap TVs that I’ve bought with low expectations for the home office or other purposes.

 

[UK SAINTS]

Buying a high dollar item I typically run a lot of tests looking for a flaw, but you are right about panel lottery theres no guarantee you'd get a replacement which would have been "cleaner". I think SOME stores will let you unbox it and test it in stores, but it that might not be an official policy. DSE can be pretty annoying from what I've read. I've seen people comment as: "once you see it you can't un-see it". I don't think I personally could buy and LED tv online that had no option to return it to a store. I don't think it is limited to just a samsung thing though, because global consolidation results in only a few companies making LED panels nowadays. For OLED tvs LG basically supplies everyone else.

so for the rest in regards to viewing:
A lot comes down to mindset and intent. Say if you were a cinephile, you'd want the best conditions and accuracy. What is fine for one won't be for others, nbd. Each person is different there is no one-size-fits-all type of answer. There are some Tvs that perform better (or worse) in certain situations, but those situations and results will vary from person to person, as will what they find acceptable or objectionable as you put it. Like for you DSE far outweighed the rest. I'm actually with you on this, I don't think I could tolerate it myself hah

I just put out info and let people weigh the pros and cons. There are actually some models on a higher tier than the ones I listed, but I doubt many here would be looking to spend $3700 on a 65 inch A90j (even if it is technically superior to all other sony/lg OLED tvs).

Any idea what the "percentage risk" of getting the DSE on the Samsung is?

 

[Zztop]

I don’t mean to disparage Samsung as a brand, but it’s what I have the most experience with. I also have read about the limited suppliers of LED panels.

I did buy a Sony once that had good reviews, but returned it because no amount of adjusting could eliminate the jittery picture, and ended up with yet another Samsung. Otherwise, I had an Olevia way back, which ended up being solid for the time, and various small cheap TVs that I’ve bought with low expectations for the home office or other purposes.

I think the criticism is valid. Actually before the Qn90a, they have been unimpressive to me. This was one of the few times I took notice since they did a really good job on the blooming that all LED tvs have. Next year they are coming out with QD-OLED (but rumored to be over $5000)

Any idea what the "percentage risk" of getting the DSE on the Samsung is?

I honestly can't even begin to guess. I will say though that since samsung has the largest market share, they are probably just concerned with making as many sets as possible and do minimum validation. So basically even if say the overall % would be small, it might affect a lot of people vs other brands. I don't know if that makes sense.

 

[Scorpius the Allfather]

yeah I know. I'm the one that told you about it lol
You also got it from costco so you could have easily returned it and gotten something else if it didn't work well for your room.

Theres many examples you can find out there, but here is one:


(timestamped to where he compares how well last year's top lg oled handles reflections vs a samsung LED)

Basically speaking reflected light will change the appearance of the light generated by the tv, which in turn changes how the colors are perceived and also washes out some of the details. As a rule the more light there is in the room, the brighter the backlight of the tv should be. It won't eliminate but rather help mitigate.

I'm just trying to inform people of the pros and cons of each technology. Due to the way they are made, LED will be brighter and able to overcome light and reflections better (see example in the video above).





Because price varies by how much the tv costs? 4 year 3rd party warranty + $3000 tv = more than $250

I forgot to mention in my list that the LG G1 comes with a 5 year factory warranty, which is rare. It is virtually identical to the C1, except the G1 is specifically made to be wall mounted

That makes sense. My tv was 1,800.

 

[B4YOU]

I bought a Samsung QN70. I couldn’t see a difference between it and the 80/85. I couldn’t justify the $550 price difference to jump to the QN90.

I’m upgrading from a 27” Hissense that was free on the side walk to a “55 Samsung.