COVID-19 Outbreak (Update: More than 2.9M cases and 132,313 deaths in US) (5 Viewers)

[St. Widge]

We aren't going to stay home until this is over. That's just not happening. Any thought that is even remotely possible should be immediately deleted from the trash bin. Some of us will continue to have social distancing with or without PPE, and some will not. And life will go on for better or for worse.

I really don't understand why people find it so hard to not socialize in a world where you can be on a Zoom, Discord, or Facetime with anyone in the world at any time. I don't really understand what physical proximity does for people. But, I'm a misanthrope by nature.

But, it is possible for us to stay at home until this is over, people just don't want to do and the truth is that's because they are willing to accept a certain level of risk and a certain number of deaths to have the social life they want. I'm not going to force people not to do it, but I do think people need to admit to themselves that this is what they are doing.

 

[Loose Cannon]

But the flip side of that is..."I see people out in the community not wearing masks, so lets FORCE people into it with even tighter regulations." Let people make sacrifices on their own terms. Try to convince people to continue to make small sacrifices.

Yep, you're correct there too.

I'm not advocating for forced masks for anyone, except perhaps workers who need to get back to work but whose employers can't set their work area up to where they are properly socially distanced from people. I think where I'm at is that employers are required to set up workspaces where people are properly socially distanced, and keep measures in place where sick people are not allowed to come in and must be asymptomatic for X days. In cases where people can't be socially distanced, masks.

I'd also like to see the government mandate work from home for employees who don't fit certain criteria that make them being in the office essential. I'd like to see this err more on the side of staying home than giving employers room to exploit loopholes, because they will. If there are a percentage point or two of outliers that get mis-classified, so be it.

Very few office workers legitimately need to be in their offices. Those of us who have WFH for a long time already know this, and many others are learning that these days.

But overall, no easy answers.

 

[Eeyore]

This.

"We can't do it perfectly so let's not try" is a pretty un-American attitude. JMO, of course.

Perfect getting in the way of good

 

[Saint_Ward]

I'm sorry man. One of my daughters, who is very well adjusted started having night terrors this past week. She hasn't seen her friends in months. She use to like school and education. She is becoming more depressed with each passing day with this home school set-up. What we are doing right now simply is NOT sustainable. I'd gladly see my grandpa die for the sake of my children. Call me callus, but it is what it is. I truly believe that are underestimating the psychological ramifications that this has on our country...especially on our children.

This is what I told my son who is having more issues with this than my daughter (who freaking loves this).

I told him, to pick one friend. Someone who's been stuck at home like him. I know they're healthy and not carrying anything. I'm not scared of bringing anything into the house, due to us taking good precautions.

I said, we'd just have a quick chat to make sure that friend hasn't done anything too stupid. They will have to remove their shoes when the first enter. Wash their hands immediately, and we'd probably avoid hugs, but, I'm negotiable on that, so long as they're well washed. I'd still prefer the kids to keep some distance, but I'm not going to freak out too much.

Honestly, me going to work, and doing the shopping is the higher risk to my family. So long as people are being honest, I'm not worried about the kids. This is probably the least germ ridden our children have ever been, if they've been stuck inside mostly.

 

[St. Widge]

But the flip side of that is..."I see people out in the community not wearing masks, so lets FORCE people into it with even tighter regulations." Let people make sacrifices on their own terms. Try to convince people to continue to make small sacrifices.

The thing is that we all live in a society, not the state of nature. A society that is more or less founded on Social Contract Theory. The idea of that being that we all agree to give up certain rights, namely the right to do whatever we want (license - note that we basically agree to give up the right to do things that harm others. Essentially, liberty turns into license at another persons' face) in exchange for the protections that society offers. In this instance, there is a very real threat to others from refusing to follow social distancing and/or wear face coverings. This also happens to be the literal foundation of the U.S. Constitution. So, the government, certainly the States, have legal and moral authority to tell people to stay home or to choose to let them leave the house but only if they follow certain rules like wearing face coverings in public.

 

[Saint_Ward]

Yep, you're correct there too.

I'm not advocating for forced masks for anyone, except perhaps workers who need to get back to work but whose employers can't set their work area up to where they are properly socially distanced from people. I think where I'm at is that employers are required to set up workspaces where people are properly socially distanced, and keep measures in place where sick people are not allowed to come in and must be asymptomatic for X days. In cases where people can't be socially distanced, masks.

I'd also like to see the government mandate work from home for employees who don't fit certain criteria that make them being in the office essential. I'd like to see this err more on the side of staying home than giving employers room to exploit loopholes, because they will. If there are a percentage point or two of outliers that get mis-classified, so be it.

Very few office workers legitimately need to be in their offices. Those of us who have WFH for a long time already know this, and many others are learning that these days.

But overall, no easy answers.

I like masks in the office, for when you're in confined areas, meetings, or walking around, because things happen in the hallway, and they aren't over 6 ft wide.

 

[Loose Cannon]

I like masks in the office, for when you're in confined areas, meetings, or walking around, because things happen in the hallway, and they aren't over 6 ft wide.

I like those people not being in the office at all and WFH. But I hear you.

 

[sammymvpknight]

The thing is that we all live in a society, not the state of nature. A society that is more or less founded on Social Contract Theory. The idea of that being that we all agree to give up certain rights, namely the right to do whatever we want (license - note that we basically agree to give up the right to do things that harm others. Essentially, liberty turns into license at another persons' face) in exchange for the protections that society offers. In this instance, there is a very real threat to others from refusing to follow social distancing and/or wear face coverings. This also happens to be the literal foundation of the U.S. Constitution. So, the government, certainly the States, have legal and moral authority to tell people to stay home or to choose to let them leave the house but only if they follow certain rules like wearing face coverings in public.

I think that enough people are going to disagree with your opinion to make it a big, big problem for our country if it is chosen to be enforced.

 

[LuvNOLA]

I found this very interesting read... a longish read. The author takes a long view and multiple viewpoints of the current pandemic with an essay on humans, the history of humans to want to take control and the views on death itself. In some way, he is saying that the virus is sort of providing a reset button to us, and showing that if we want, we can make massive changes on a dime.

Some excerpts from the essay.







https://charleseisenstein.org/essays/the-coronation/

Thanks! Lots of interesting ideas

 

[Saint_Ward]

I like those people not being in the office at all and WFH. But I hear you.

Agreed. Some can, some of us can't. I'm in a lab. I need the equipment. We have people inspecting parts, building stuff, measuring things. Need to be here.

 

[St. Widge]

Yep, you're correct there too.

I'm not advocating for forced masks for anyone, except perhaps workers who need to get back to work but whose employers can't set their work area up to where they are properly socially distanced from people. I think where I'm at is that employers are required to set up workspaces where people are properly socially distanced, and keep measures in place where sick people are not allowed to come in and must be asymptomatic for X days. In cases where people can't be socially distanced, masks.

I'd also like to see the government mandate work from home for employees who don't fit certain criteria that make them being in the office essential. I'd like to see this err more on the side of staying home than giving employers room to exploit loopholes, because they will. If there are a percentage point or two of outliers that get mis-classified, so be it.

Very few office workers legitimately need to be in their offices. Those of us who have WFH for a long time already know this, and many others are learning that these days.

But overall, no easy answers.

Good points. I really think we can open up a large portion of the economy while still keeping large numbers of people working from home. Some jobs can't be done that way - retail, manufacturing, restaurants, etc. But pretty much so all office jobs can be done remotely. I know mine can. It takes longer than normal and it's not as efficient, but it's a small price to pay considering what is going on and what others are dealing with. And there is no reason not to do it. But, you are right, the employers need to be told to do it by the government or they won't do it because it is less efficient and they want to see their employees daily to make sure they are getting enough work out of them.

 

[Saint_Ward]

The thing is that we all live in a society, not the state of nature. A society that is more or less founded on Social Contract Theory. The idea of that being that we all agree to give up certain rights, namely the right to do whatever we want (license - note that we basically agree to give up the right to do things that harm others. Essentially, liberty turns into license at another persons' face) in exchange for the protections that society offers. In this instance, there is a very real threat to others from refusing to follow social distancing and/or wear face coverings. This also happens to be the literal foundation of the U.S. Constitution. So, the government, certainly the States, have legal and moral authority to tell people to stay home or to choose to let them leave the house but only if they follow certain rules like wearing face coverings in public.

They do. But, I think you have to look at it from the lens of what can you get people to reliably do. The longer this plays out, the worse the counter reaction.

Also, you know I have a pretty broad view of the public being generally stupid.

We need a clear and consistent message from our leaders. So, we're forked.

 

[LuvNOLA]

I think that enough people are going to disagree with your opinion to make it a big, big problem for our country if it is chosen to be enforced.

I just don’t see, and haven’t seen any of that noncompliance behavior.

IMHO, folks are scared for themselves, their families & their loved ones.

 

[St. Widge]

I think that enough people are going to disagree with your opinion to make it a big, big problem for our country if it is chosen to be enforced.

I mean, then they don't really want to be Americans or follow the U.S. Constitution. Because it's the foundation for our entire system of government. It's John Locke and Jean Jacques Rousseau who are more or less the philosophical fathers of Constitutional Democracies.

But sure, I don't expect the average person to get that. It's not surprising at all that people have no idea what their Constitution says or what it's source is ,while yelling that they think they have a Constitutional Right to bowl and get tattoos.

 

[Mr. Blue Sky]

I've noticed a lot in my county still not taking this serious. This was posted on the Nextdoor website and I'm betting represents a large portion of this counties population. If this is any representation of a large population percentage, then we will be dealing with this for a loooong time.

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at least they’re not making it political... Jeez.