NS.. ex-NFL players sue league... It's starting to make sense now (1 Viewer)

[SaintNashville]

MN great read. There is nothing like getting a person's perspective first hand. I appreciate you sharing his story. Tell Kyle to rock on and best wishes and good health in the future. Also telling him that if he would have aimed his throw better after the last game that season, I would have had his helmet. My seats were right over the tunnel that they enter and exit pre/post game.

Ha! Right on, I'll tell him Sunday. We're gonna go do some 4 wheeling with the kids and cause chaos in the neighborhood.

 

[SaintsMed]

Just read through this entire thread. Just a few things.

1. I believe the main factor here is whether the NFL knew about the long-term effects of concussions and ignored them or not. I believe everyone knew short-term effects but not sure if back in the 80's and early 90's the long-term effects were known. This I believe is the key issue.

2. I do believe that certain risks are associated with playing in the NFL. If the full risks and benefits of a situation be it a job, an action such as driving or even a surgery are known and that task is undertaken, the outcome is what it is.

3. Toradol in no way is a narcotic. It does not alter your consciousness. It is basically an IV form of ibuprofen. It carries a risk to your kidneys, so it is not given to people with kidney problems. It is also not given for an extended period of time. Giving the football players toradol in no way tricked them. If one is to make this argument, he should suggest that no pain medicine be given at all on the field.

4. There is very little evidence to suggest that ALS is caused by trauma. There is some evidence to suggest that they may be linked. However, the literature that everyone is pulling from is a 12 person study, TWELVE people. Most had a certain protein (TDP-43) that is associated with the disease. 3 developed the disease or a disease similar. This disease is so rare that it will be a long time before great headway is made, and trying to tease out cause/effect is near impossible be sample size is so limited. I feel for Steve Gleason (he is on my computer and phone wallpaper) but I would be extremely pressed to suggest that his disease is caused by his NFL career.

 

[Gumerk]

MNSaint, if your description is accurate, that is obviously neglect, malpractice, and incompetence by the trained and licensed men or women in charge of his health and well-being as a NFL football player and human being!

 

[SaintNashville]

MNSaint, if your description is accurate, that is obviously neglect, malpractice, and incompetence by the trained and licensed men or women in charge of his health and well-being as a NFL football player and human being!

It's straight from Kyle's mouth. I'll try to get him to post something on here Sunday about it

 

[El Caliente]

Guys this is America. You sue any body, for any thing, any time. Whether you have a case or not is a different story.

These guys however do have a case. This isn't a money grab, this is an effort to draw attention to the fact that these teams have shady business practices when it comes to concussions. We all know about bad knees, etc. when players retire, but we are just learning more about concussions. Science is still discovering new things about concusions in their relation to the brain, it isn't as well studied as people like to think.

How this differs from football, to the welder, carpenter, or the construction worker is a matter of money, and that shouldn't matter when your talking about human rights. Why people don't think we should all have the same human rights is beyond me.

And can we stop with the silly "put a gun to _____head" nobody is putting a gun up to anyones head to make them do something so quit using that analogy.

 

[FFT22]

4. There is very little evidence to suggest that ALS is caused by trauma. There is some evidence to suggest that they may be linked. However, the literature that everyone is pulling from is a 12 person study, TWELVE people. Most had a certain protein (TDP-43) that is associated with the disease. 3 developed the disease or a disease similar. This disease is so rare that it will be a long time before great headway is made, and trying to tease out cause/effect is near impossible be sample size is so limited. I feel for Steve Gleason (he is on my computer and phone wallpaper) but I would be extremely pressed to suggest that his disease is caused by his NFL career.

Actually, they believe football players are contracting ALS and an ALS-like disease, and that the protein they're finding on the spine is caused by repeated head trauma. I realize it's a reverse study, but it still shows that football players are significantly more likely to contract an ALS-like condition. Obviously, that does not rule out other factors, but it implies causation. Chronic encepalopathy has been linked pretty conclusively, and the brains of football players that have been studied have produced scary results.

http://www.bu.edu/today/2010/head-trauma-linked-to-als-like-disease/

Still, you make good points, and I mostly agree with them. I think there are a lot of people who have posted in this thread that are simply bitter that football players make so much money, and have a "they deserve whatever they get" mentality. I can't get on board with that. You're right that the science is not all there yet, but enough science is (and has been for some time) in place to mandate rule changes like the ones we are finally seeing and more. The fact that it took the NFL this long to react is where I think liability will attach, if not from simply being in the best position to discover these issues.

 

[FFT22]

So what's the answer? Should the NFL go and pay for every player that stepped foot on an NFL practice field whether they played for 1 day or 10 yrs? Keep in mind, research is showing that sub-concussive blows to the head are causing CTE in college athletes that have never had a diagnosed concussion.

The research is changing so much in such short time that Cantu stated up to the early 2000's that it was ok to allow a kid to return to play on the same day he/she suffers a concussion to what he says today that collision sports shouldn't be allowed until a kid reaches 14yrs old. Will we look back 20yrs from now and laugh at ourselves for letting 10yr olds play tackle football? Will pee-wee football and hockey leagues become extinct? It could happen.

I don't have all the answers or the perfect answers, but that does not mean it's ok to do nothing. Obviously a local school district is in no position to spend millions of dollars studying issues with repeated head trauma. But there is a billion dollar industry that happens to be the most popular sport in the country with obscene television deals that could probably afford it. In fact, as an employer, the law might say they have/had a duty to.

 

[Saint Jeremy]

Ex-NFL players sue league over brain injuries - CBS News

I get it but i don't get it... Now i understand why league is hurting the game by calling these nonsense pernalties.. They're simply trying to protect themselves..

Here's my problem with this and why I didn't see this coming.. What did these players think was going to happen ramming their heads and the rest of their body into other people and the ground at full speed????

I cannot for the life of me understand the law... Isn't it a reasonable epectation that if I do dirt diving from 20 feet that there will probably be some long term negitive effect on my body and how can an employer be held responsible??? You could have chosen to NOT play... go get a regular job that there are less health risks.

I can understand if the league kept information from the players but whats to hide? You play football or box long enough, you're going to have some head trama. Whats next, ex baseball catchers sue MBL because their knees hurt when they got older... no crap

I have a huge problem with people who make bad decisions and then try to get money when the effect doesn't please them... They had a choice to do something that didn't include ramming their head into other people at full speed.. They did it cuz there was nothing else they could do to make the money that they made and probably wizzed it all away..

I'm amazed that the NFL didn't or doesn't have something in the contracts or whatever to protect themselves from this..

So you care more about watching guys ram their heads into each other than guys being brain damaged?

The NFL recognized the problem. Whether it was because of pending lawsuits or PR or they really give a damn, who knows. But I am sick of people putting their entertainment above someone's health.

 

[Saint Jeremy]

Actually, they believe football players are contracting ALS and an ALS-like disease, and that the protein they're finding on the spine is caused by repeated head trauma. I realize it's a reverse study, but it still shows that football players are significantly more likely to contract an ALS-like condition. Obviously, that does not rule out other factors, but it implies causation. Chronic encepalopathy has been linked pretty conclusively, and the brains of football players that have been studied have produced scary results.

Head Trauma Linked to ALS-Like Disease | BU Today | Boston University

Still, you make good points, and I mostly agree with them. I think there are a lot of people who have posted in this thread that are simply bitter that football players make so much money, and have a "they deserve whatever they get" mentality. I can't get on board with that. You're right that the science is not all there yet, but enough science is (and has been for some time) in place to mandate rule changes like the ones we are finally seeing and more. The fact that it took the NFL this long to react is where I think liability will attach, if not from simply being in the best position to discover these issues.

Good post. Actually I read that there is now thought that Lou Gherig, who is the face/name of ALS really didn't have ALS, but had ALS like disease caused by hits he took while playing college football.

Study Says Brain Trauma Can Mimic A.L.S. - NYTimes.com

 

[krushing]

Good post. Actually I read that there is now thought that Lou Gherig, who is the face/name of ALS really didn't have ALS, but had ALS like disease caused by hits he took while playing college football.

Study Says Brain Trauma Can Mimic A.L.S. - NYTimes.com

I know a man who's ALS or ALS like symptoms were triggered by removing his wisdom teeth so it doesn't take that much trauma to trigger it. He never regained all the sensation in his face and lived about a year from the time he had the teeth extracted. There is no conclusive test for ALS so who knows if it's one ailment, or more then one that are closely related ailment.

 

[atceagle]

I don't have all the answers or the perfect answers, but that does not mean it's ok to do nothing. Obviously a local school district is in no position to spend millions of dollars studying issues with repeated head trauma. But there is a billion dollar industry that happens to be the most popular sport in the country with obscene television deals that could probably afford it. In fact, as an employer, the law might say they have/had a duty to.

The finger is already being pointed at the NFL for funding there own studies like you've pointed out. Don't you think it's like the fox guarding the henhouse?

 

[atceagle]

I wonder how many of these players were less than honest with those taking care of them in order to get back on the field. Nobody is talking about that. Up until a few years ago, there was no way to physically test for a concussion. You were simply going by what the player tells you they are experiencing. So while it was obvious to see a player take a big hit and suffer immediate and obvious symptoms, the guidelines when these players played was that if the symptoms cleared within 15 minutes, they were able to return to play. These guidelines have since been changed. Google "Zurich Consensus Statement" to see how concussions are now handled.

This is exactly what I'm talking about. With all the new info about the lasting effects of concussions and many of the players still don't understand the consequences.

The NFL's lingering concussion problem - CBS News

In a series of interviews about head injuries with The Associated Press over the last two weeks, 23 of 44 NFL players — slightly more than half — said they would try to conceal a possible concussion rather than pull themselves out of a game. Some acknowledged they already have. Players also said they should be better protected from their own instincts: More than two-thirds of the group the AP talked to wants independent neurologists on sidelines during games.

 

[Flipx99]

Its obviously a complicated issue. I think the only viable solution to the issue would be to setup longterm healthcare for players...That being said, I think these two comments from the ESPN article are worth repeating...

"OverendWatts-
Roger Goodell will fine and suspend James Harrison for this."

"mdpinholster-
I think they should sue the guy that held the gun to their head and made them play football professionally.

I am a military Veteran that also happens to work in healthcare now...there are some "on the job risks" involved with certain jobs.

It is called assumed and implied risk."

You don't assume the risk that your treating physician is going to lie to you, or cover up the true nature of your injury. Quite the opposite, you assume that when the physician says you are medically cleared to play, that you are, in fact, okay to play.

 

[State Of Affairs]

So these guys don't have a right to complain is what people are saying? So does that take the right to complain from welders, construction workers, truckers, commercial fisherman and every other labor job? They play football, and make money, but not every player is a millionaire, and just because they play football doesnt mean they aren't like us.

Researchers are coming out with new facts about the long lasting effects of concussions well after playing days are done, so why are people acting like the players knew what they are getting in to?

You and so many of others are completely missing the point.... Welders, constructions workers, truckers and ccommercial fisherman don't willing work in an environment where they are pounded into the ground while going full speed at another man.

People say the medical staff gave them pills and such but I would care to say that everyone one of these guys not only willing took them but asked for something that would help them play....

I had people around me my entire life that tried to influance me to do bad things like many others have. Just becaue YOU took the pills doesn't make it someone else's fault...

simply put, athletics are completely different then other jobs in this case. You take a job getting punched in the face over and over, I don't want to hear about your headaches...

If you accept a job as a mail clerk and some 300 pound employee take a running start at you and drives you into the floor, now we have something to talk about...

don't accept a job that in inharently dangerous and accept all that money and then complain when your knees are shot or your back hurts... what did you think would happen?? and I don't want to hear how they didn't expect that to happen. I didn't expect to get a ticket for speeding but I didn't get out of it when the cop pulled me over cuz I didn't think I would get a ticket... dumb analogy I know but I'm tired of all the excuses for bad decisions and YES, playing football is a bad decision if you really cared about your long term health...

 

[State Of Affairs]

Take money out of the equation and what separates these guys from a skilled labor worker?

skilled workers didn't readily accept a position where their body would be pounded several times a week....

are you serious with this question?? whats the dfferance between a computer tech and a football player?? you gota do better then that bro...