Ukraine (13 Viewers)

[efil4stnias]

155mm BONUS round accuracy.

Wow.

 

[Consigliere]

Are they re-making the Thriller video again?

 

[Tapxe]

I dont like it, never have, never will...at some point, if you desire to be the "beacon on the hill"

Im encouraged that European nations are not particularly waiting on US to act in a certain manner or "give their blessing"

These two things point to the dilemma. NATO, other than US, was perfectly fine shirking and allowing US to handle it all. They didn't need or want to step up because we became the default security blanket.

By standing aside somewhat, it forces other NATO countries to uphold their own end of the treaty. This wasn't going to happen so long as big brother was around to fight all their battles.

The US has done plenty and part of that is forcing the rest of Europe to take an active role in their own defense imo. We might be the last to approve of some things, but it's forcing those other countries to realize they cannot and should not become over reliant on the US.

Ukraine pays the price unfortunately, but this is as much on NATO partners as it is on the US. We simply cannot ignore Taiwan\China etc to provide Europe a safety net.

 

[efil4stnias]

These two things point to the dilemma. NATO, other than US, was perfectly fine shirking and allowing US to handle it all. They didn't need or want to step up because we became the default security blanket.

By standing aside somewhat, it forces other NATO countries to uphold their own end of the treaty. This wasn't going to happen so long as big brother was around to fight all their battles.

The US has done plenty and part of that is forcing the rest of Europe to take an active role in their own defense imo. We might be the last to approve of some things, but it's forcing those other countries to realize they cannot and should not become over reliant on the US.

Ukraine pays the price unfortunately, but this is as much on NATO partners as it is on the US. We simply cannot ignore Taiwan\China etc to provide Europe a safety net.

I think that we really dropped the ball in late 2021/early 2022 in recognizing Putins ambitions. I think once we realized it, it was assumed Ukraine would fall. I think NATO initially followed suit, since we are the leading member ( largest militarily ). Then Ukraine didnt fall and we ( and NATO ) didnt have a concrete plan. I think the nature of NATO was that the US would be capable of diplomacy in turning down the heat. We didnt. We couldnt. Thats not a slight on the US, but perception is everything. And we looked weak in this regard.

And im in full agreement on Europe not relying on US. At the same time, US should take NO STANCE on what Europe decides to do, collectively, other than to publicly "back their brothers play".

I have been banging the drum for Ukraine to STOP asking for permission and just strike Russian assets - easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.

But they have to operate and make decisions under the duress of defunding/ammo supply halts. Europe simply cannot supplement that loss if it were to happen.

So Ukraine has to fight a war with constraints. ( rules of engagement )

Huh....where have we heard THAT ?

US as morphed warfare into some quasi-benign conflict...it has never been and never will be, IF you are looking to win outright. War is as ugly as it gets. Bending your opponent into submission thru death and destruction. Thats a war.

Which is why, after WWII, so much has been done to avoid a conflict of that nature.

 

[DJ1BigTymer]

 

[baarbogast]

 

[efil4stnias]

 

[baarbogast]

Message to Orban?

 

[Sailorsaint]

I’m wondering if any of the articles in BRICS would contradict Turkey’s obligations in NATO anyway? In particular article 4 in NATO concerning security?

 

[Sailorsaint]

How will the prisoner exchange be handled with NK POWs? With Russia or NK?

North Korean troops fighting in Ukraine for Russia would be 'fair game,' White House says

U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby also revealed details of U.S. intelligence assessments, saying Washington believes North Korea "moved at least 3000 soldiers into eastern Russia."

kyivindependent.com

 

[DaveXA]

How will the prisoner exchange be handled with NK POWs? With Russia or NK?

North Korean troops fighting in Ukraine for Russia would be 'fair game,' White House says

U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby also revealed details of U.S. intelligence assessments, saying Washington believes North Korea "moved at least 3000 soldiers into eastern Russia."

kyivindependent.com

99% sure they would do exchange directly with NK. I suppose Russia could facilitate the exchange, but the Nk troops would get sent back to NK or right back to the front.

 

[efil4stnias]

How will the prisoner exchange be handled with NK POWs? With Russia or NK?

North Korean troops fighting in Ukraine for Russia would be 'fair game,' White House says

U.S. National Security Council spokesperson John Kirby also revealed details of U.S. intelligence assessments, saying Washington believes North Korea "moved at least 3000 soldiers into eastern Russia."

kyivindependent.com

A shame the WH had to even address this - "fair game" - of course they are.

 

[DCSaints_Fan]

99% sure they would do exchange directly with NK. I suppose Russia could facilitate the exchange, but the Nk troops would get sent back to NK or right back to the front.

I doubt North Korea would want them back. I agree with Jake Broe - this is a one way trip for nearly all of them. The ones that dont get killed will simply be exiled. They dont want them spreading dissent within the ranks abou how good life is in even Russia compared to NK

 

[baarbogast]

I doubt North Korea would want them back. I agree with Jake Broe - this is a one way trip for nearly all of them. The ones that dont get killed will simply be exiled. They dont want them spreading dissent within the ranks abou how good life is in even Russia compared to NK

Possibly they go to SK and sneak back in. I fully suspect the families will be watched very closely.

 

[SamAndreas]

The North Korean troops in Russia thing appears to have begun in June when Russia and NK signed a mutual defence pact. Time has passed and that treaty was ratified by the Duma recently. This pact might be similar to the one the US and Great Britain shair.

Now that pact appears to be coming into force. There appears to be 3,000 NK military personnel taking up positions in Russia, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out 3,000 unfortunate Russian military personnel are going to spend the winter in NK. Next year it will be more of them.

I don't understand why it seems everyone on the Internet thinks those NK personnel will be pushed to the front lines in Ukraine. Why on Earth would they do that???

I think a pact like that will need at least 10,000 military personnel living and working in the other country to enact it. Those people will tend to be specialists, not line troops. We have thousands upon thousands of military personnel based in England and all across NATO and the world maintaining pacts like this. In the event of war those people are not combat troops. I seriously doubt we we'll see the NK military personnel showing up on the Ukrainian battlefield.

I think if some, a few, do show up fighting in Ukraine it will be a token showing for propaganda purpose.

Here's some generalized reading about it.

Russian lawmakers ratify pact with North Korea as US confirms that Pyongyang sent troops to Russia

Russian lawmakers have ratified a pact with North Korea envisioning mutual military assistance, a move that comes even as the U.S. confirmed the deployment of 3,000 North Korean troops to Russia.

apnews.com

MOSCOW (AP) — Russian lawmakers on Thursday ratified a pact with North Korea envisioning mutual military assistance, a move that comes as the U.S. confirmed the deployment of 3,000 North Korean troops to Russia.

The lower house of the Russian parliament, the State Duma, voted quickly to endorse the “comprehensive strategic partnership” treaty that Russia’s President Vladimir Putin signed with North Korean leader King Jong Un on a visit to Pyongyang in June. The upper house is expected to follow suit soon.

The pact obliges Russia and North Korea to immediately provide military assistance using “all means” if either is attacked. It marked the strongest link between Moscow and Pyongyang since the end of the Cold War.

"Asked in June whether North Korean troops could fight alongside Russian forces in Ukraine under the pact, Putin said there was no need for that but he also announced for the first time that Russia could provide weapons to Pyongyang."


"Observers said that in exchange for military support Moscow could share sophisticated weapons technologies with Pyongyang to help improve its ballistic missile and satellite capabilities."

US confirms North Korea has sent 3,000 troops to Russia for training and possible Ukraine combat

The U.S. says 3,000 North Korean troops have deployed to Russia and are training at several locations, calling the move very serious.

apnews.com

WASHINGTON (AP) — The U.S. said Wednesday that 3,000 North Korean troops have been deployed to Russia and are training at several locations, calling the move very serious and warning that those forces will be “fair game” if they go into combat in Ukraine.

The deployment raises the potential for the North Koreans to join Russian forces in Ukraine and suggests expanded military ties between the two nations as Moscow seeks weapons and troops to gain ground in a grinding war that has stalemated after more than two years.

Defense Secretary Lloyd Austin called it a “next step” after the North has provided Russia with arms, and said Pyongyang could face consequences for aiding Russia directly. His comments were the first public U.S. confirmation of North Korea sending troops to Russia — a development South Korean officials disclosed but was denied by Pyongyang and Moscow.

White House national security spokesman John Kirby said the U.S. believes that at least 3,000 North Korean soldiers traveled by ship to Vladivostok, Russia’s largest Pacific port, in early to mid-October.

Putin ends BRICS summit that sought to expand Russia's global clout but was shadowed by Ukraine

Russian President Vladimir Putin has presided at the closing session of a summit of the BRICS bloc of developing economies, hailing its role as a counterbalance to the West.

apnews.com

"Putin also was asked about whether any North Korean troops were in Russia, which he neither confirmed nor denied. The U.S. said Wednesday that 3,000 North Korean troops have been deployed to Russia and are training at several locations."