Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (5 Viewers)

[jahsoul357]

This is not true. Unvaccinated people are catching covid at a significantly faster rate than vaccinated people. So clearly it's stopping some people from getting COVID.

I'm not aware of any particular group of people who would be safer not getting vaccinated than getting vaccinated.

This does not mean there is 0 risk of getting vaccinated, of course. There is no such thing as 0 risk. But all statistical analysis done shows that every single group of people are more likely to die if they don't get vaccinated than if they do get vaccinated.

So, there really isn't a great rational reason to not get vaccinated. For every single person that I'm aware of, getting vaccinated lowers your risk of death or serious disease.

Your last statement is true but in a lot of countries around the world, this isn't the case. This is why I like how the UK presents it's data. Clear and concise; raw data and rates so we can have a real picture of what's going on.

Facts about what is being seen from UK reports:
The vaccinated are catching COVID at a much higher rate than the unvaccinated BUT vaccinated rate of hospitalization and death is much lower (even though due to the percentage of those vaccinated, there is more vaccinated in the hospital).

From what I read and heard from reputable, unbiased doctors, the vaccine does nothing to stop the spread but it sheds the viral load much faster than one that is unvaccinated. This is how the vaccinated can minimize the risk of severe symptoms and the byproduct is they are contagious for a shorter time. This can reduce the spread if all other measures are taken but they can spread the virus as easily as the unvaccinated.

If you read any of my post regarding COVID, I've never once bashed the vaccine (though I hate the mandate) and gave props for what it does in reducing symptoms, hospitalizations, and deaths.

What I'm not going to do is paint the picture like the vaccine is a cure all and there is no downsides or risk associated and in every situation, one size doesn't fit all. And I'm also not going to let someone's vaccine status determine my views towards anything about them or the situation that they find themselves in, especially when it isn't COVID related.

 

[SWJJ]

Your last statement is true but in a lot of countries around the world, this isn't the case. This is why I like how the UK presents it's data. Clear and concise; raw data and rates so we can have a real picture of what's going on.

Facts about what is being seen from UK reports:
The vaccinated are catching COVID at a much higher rate than the unvaccinated BUT

In raw numbers or based on percentage of population or what?


Can you link this?

Frankly that sounds made up.

 

[jahsoul357]

You think you know something you don't know man. This is an excellent example of why correlation does not equal causation. That 15 minutes is meaningless. The 57 reactions of the 16.9 Million vaccines given had an average 9 days before displaying symptoms.

You don't get a vaccine and develop blood clots big enough to get lodged anywhere in 15 minutes.

That's not how it works.


That clots been floating around in her Type 2 diabetes, high cholesterol, obesity and hypoventilation syndrome, a breathing disorder, bloodstream getting bigger and bigger for a little while.

But in saying all of that, you can't say with surety that she would still be alive if she didn't get the shot. And why would the state try to sweep this incident under the rug?

In raw numbers or based on percentage of population or what?


Can you link this?

Frankly that sounds made up.

COVID-19 vaccine quarterly surveillance reports (September 2021 to November 2024)

Data on the real-world effectiveness and impact of the COVID-19 vaccines.

www.gov.uk

If people were upfront about the vaccine and what it was made to do, as opposed to pushing a narrative that makes this a wonder drug, we could look at these numbers as a major win. Yes, you can still catch COVID but look at the rate of hospitalizations and these numbers seem high compared to the vaccinated but look at the amount of people vaccinated and caught COVID compared to who is in the hospital. And now the raw numbers and rates can go hand in hand to paint a clearer and better picture.

 

[SWJJ]

But in saying all of that, you can't say with surety that she would still be alive if she didn't get the shot. And why would the state try to sweep this incident under the rug?

COVID-19 vaccine quarterly surveillance reports (September 2021 to November 2024)

Data on the real-world effectiveness and impact of the COVID-19 vaccines.

www.gov.uk

Actually a medical examiner can, and they did. She was an Obese Diabetic with Hypertension and a Cardio-Pulmonary Disease walking around with a blood clot.

She was going to to have a heart attack or aneurysm in the VERY near future.

There is NO conspiracy here, just a family struggling as they grieve, grasping for answers.


Now as to your link. It's just a page of about 100 weekly reports that are about 34 pages each, so I am gonna need a little bit better than that, or else it looks like you are just making things up.

 

[jahsoul357]

Actually a medical examiner can, and they did. She was an Obese Diabetic with Hypertension and a Cardio-Pulmonary Disease walking around with a blood clot.

She was going to to have a heart attack or aneurysm in the VERY near future.

There is NO conspiracy here, just a family struggling as they grieve, grasping for answers.


Now as to your link. It's just a page of about 100 weekly reports that are about 34 pages each, so I am gonna need a little bit better than that, or else it looks like you are just making things up.

But an independent autopsy was performed because the state didn't and that gave a clear picture. The medical examiner tried to initially say she died from COVID. You got to go back at the beginning of that drama..

As it relates to the reports, pick either one; the trends are the same

 

[sfidc3]

What I'm not going to do is paint the picture like the vaccine is a cure all and there is no downsides or risk associated and in every situation, one size doesn't fit all. And I'm also not going to let someone's vaccine status determine my views towards anything about them or the situation that they find themselves in, especially when it isn't COVID related.

No one....is saying it's a cure all, I think that is your misunderstanding right there....Vaccines aren't cures, this may be your biggest misunderstanding, they mitigate risk....to the tune of saving countless millions in lives in this instance....there is a risk with anything, but the data and science have shown the risk of taking the vaccine is tiny.....

But lets waste a ton of time and effort propping up terrible examples that take the rational/reasonable folks on this board minutes to dispel.....

 

[dtc]

You’re take is pretty naive if you don’t think that any medical intervention could have contributed to one death after it’s administered millions upon millions of times. That’s not the reality of medicine that I understand

I was discussing the link which you, yourself, have described I believe as self reported.

I'll defer to you, Dr, but from what I understand there are no deaths directly attributed to the vaccine. There are millions attributed to the virus. Either way, you or someone else did a very fine job explaining the self reported nature and the flaws in his logic in a previous post.

Still, you tell me. How many dead due strictly to the receipt of the vaccine?

 

[jahsoul357]

No one....is saying it's a cure all, I think that is your misunderstanding right there....Vaccines aren't cures, this may be your biggest misunderstanding, they mitigate risk....to the tune of saving countless millions in lives in this instance....there is a risk with anything, but the data and science have shown the risk of taking the vaccine is tiny.....

But lets waste a ton of time and effort propping up terrible examples that take the rational/reasonable folks on this board minutes to dispel.....

I don't think it is a cure and never once said it was; you would have to be infected for it to be a cure. lol

It seems like everyone is missing the point to preach the benefits of the vaccine. Everyone wanted to jump on me about this because I said that in this situation, the vaccine presented a "present" risk because of the young man's condition. In order for the vaccine to save his life, he would first have to catch COVID but there is a risk that with his condition, he can die if he takes the vaccine. Anything discussed after that has been centered around everything but that point.

 

[jahsoul357]

I was discussing the link which you, yourself, have described I believe as self reported.

I'll defer to you, Dr, but from what I understand there are no deaths directly attributed to the vaccine. There are millions attributed to the virus. Either way, you or someone else did a very fine job explaining the self reported nature and the flaws in his logic in a previous post.

Still, you tell me. How many dead due strictly to the receipt of the vaccine?

So if we are looking for how many are dead due strictly to the receipt of the vaccine, shouldn't we have that same energy to see how many of the millions died from COVID alone?



I'll be the first to tell you that health could have a major effect on the number of deaths due to the vaccine. I also say that it has the same, if not greater effect on those who die with COVID.

 

[SWJJ]

I don't think it is a cure and never once said it was; you would have to be infected for it to be a cure. lol

It seems like everyone is missing the point to preach the benefits of the vaccine. Everyone wanted to jump on me about this because I said that in this situation, the vaccine presented a "present" risk because of the young man's condition. In order for the vaccine to save his life, he would first have to catch COVID but there is a risk that with his condition, he can die if he takes the vaccine. Anything discussed after that has been centered around everything but that point.

He is LIKELY to die if he gets COVID while on immune suppressants post transplant operation.

He is NOT LIKELY to die of the vaccine if he gets it.


I still don't see where vaccinated people are catching COVID at higher rates, so it's seems tome that you just made that up.

 

[UncleTrvlingJim]

But in saying all of that, you can't say with surety that she would still be alive if she didn't get the shot. And why would the state try to sweep this incident under the rug?

COVID-19 vaccine quarterly surveillance reports (September 2021 to November 2024)

Data on the real-world effectiveness and impact of the COVID-19 vaccines.

www.gov.uk

If people were upfront about the vaccine and what it was made to do, as opposed to pushing a narrative that makes this a wonder drug, we could look at these numbers as a major win. Yes, you can still catch COVID but look at the rate of hospitalizations and these numbers seem high compared to the vaccinated but look at the amount of people vaccinated and caught COVID compared to who is in the hospital. And now the raw numbers and rates can go hand in hand to paint a clearer and better picture.

That report does not say the vaccinated catch COVID more easily than the unvaccinated.

To make that claim you need to normalize the data first -- what percentage of the vaccinated population is catching covid vs. what percentage of the unvaccinated is catching covid. That will tell you the rate, not raw cases.

For example. Let's take a population of 100,000. And let's say 95,000 of them are vaccinated. Now let's say 20,000 people get COVID from that population. 16,000 of them were vaccinated and only 4,000 were unvaccinated.

You can truthfully say that 4 times as many vaccinated people caught covid. However, only 17% of the vaccinated population caught covid and 80% of the unvaccinated population caught covid. So the rate of infection is 4 times higher in the unvaccinated population. So if your goal is to lower your risk of catching covid, then you are better off getting vaccinated.

This is actually pretty close to the actual numbers in all countries. The unvaccinated population is catching covid at about 3 times the rate as the vaccinated population.

 

[SWJJ]

So if we are looking for how many are dead due strictly to the receipt of the vaccine, shouldn't we have that same energy to see how many of the millions died from COVID alone?

yOuTuBe ReSeArCh

This has gotten ridiculous.

 

[jahsoul357]

yOuTuBe ReSeArCh

This has gotten ridiculous.

You do know that this isn't research but he is reciting data directly provided by the government.

Nice deflection tho..

 

[dtc]

The family had to pay for the autopsy because the state wouldn't perform one and the state didn't want it put out that the vaccine could have played a part in her death. They initially stated that she died from COVID.

Virginia officials won’t say why they didn’t do autopsy of Gloucester woman who died after vaccine

The family of a woman who died shortly after receiving a coronavirus vaccine had a private autopsy performed on her last week because the state did not do one while investigating her death, her dau…

www.pilotonline.com

They found a blood clot.

Risk of rare blood clotting higher for COVID-19 than for vaccines | University of Oxford

COVID-19 leads to a several-times higher risk of cerebral venous thrombosis (CVT) blood clots than current COVID-19 vaccines.

www.ox.ac.uk

But your quoted statement takes us right back to my original points about the heart transplant story. If you brushing this off like the vaccine didn't kill her 15 minutes after she took it but she died naturally due to her underlying issues, why would a patient waiting on a new heart be excluded from this risk?


Point out the "95% of what I post" as being BS and I can guarantee that there is an approved study to back up what I'm saying. You all are really trying to say that it is BS that getting the vaccine carries a health risk, when this is proven. The worse you healthy, the higher the risk. But I have not emotional attachment to anyone getting the vaccine or not, so I don't have to push a narrative. I stated that because of his condition, the vaccine poses a risk. You all are coming out the woodwork while yet ignoring the point made. I'm looking at the present risk and you are looking at the risk IF he catches COVID.

So, your whole point in all this flim flam is that the dude with the need for a heart has an increased risk of negative effect from the vaccine and so he should be allowed the heart despite the medical analysis that his risk is lower with the vaccine than without and, as such, puts him outside of the pool for the transfer and this is wrong.


Correct?

If so, you are essentially arguing that his stupidity should allow him to bypass the smarter people who suffer from the same conditions.

Stupid.

 

[LonghornSaint]

But in saying all of that, you can't say with surety that she would still be alive if she didn't get the shot. And why would the state try to sweep this incident under the rug?

COVID-19 vaccine quarterly surveillance reports (September 2021 to November 2024)

Data on the real-world effectiveness and impact of the COVID-19 vaccines.

www.gov.uk

If people were upfront about the vaccine and what it was made to do, as opposed to pushing a narrative that makes this a wonder drug, we could look at these numbers as a major win. Yes, you can still catch COVID but look at the rate of hospitalizations and these numbers seem high compared to the vaccinated but look at the amount of people vaccinated and caught COVID compared to who is in the hospital. And now the raw numbers and rates can go hand in hand to paint a clearer and better picture.

For convenience, I opened up the latest surveillance in your link, and I'm not finding anything at all that supports what you said about the vaxxed catching covid at higher rate than unvaxxed.

What section or page can you direct me to to confirm this?