COVID-19 Outbreak Information Updates (Reboot) [over 150.000,000 US cases (est.), 6,422,520 US hospitilizations, 1,148,691 US deaths.] (26 Viewers)

[DaveXA]

I became a diet nerd after i was diagnosed with high cholesterol. My diet requires some dedication

breakfast - peanut butter sandwich on whole grain bread with an orange. A perfectly balanced nutritional meal.

Lunch. 3.5 ounces of cold water fish, veggies, and beans.

Dinner- eat what you want and polish off with a bowl of oatmeal before bed

Is there a particular reason for oatmeal at the end of the day?

Also, I'd probably sub in orange juice in place of the orange. It's not that I don't like oranges, but would rather drink juice.

 

[Arathrael]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

 

[SWJJ]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

They do occur, but starvation (fasting) absolutely upregulates it.

We know the mechanism.

Abstract​

Macroautophagy (herein referred to as autophagy) is an evolutionarily conserved self-digestive process cells adapt to starvation and other stress responses. Upon starvation, autophagy is induced, providing cells with needed nutrient supplies. We report here that Unc-51-like kinase 1 (Ulk1), a key initiator for mammalian autophagy, undergoes dramatic dephosphorylation upon starvation, particularly at serine 638 and serine 758. Phosphorylations of Ulk1 are mediated by mammalian target-of-rapamycin (mTOR) kinase and adenosine monophosphate activated protein kinase (AMPK). AMPK interacts with Ulk1 in a nutrient-dependent manner. Proper phosphorylations on Ulk1 are crucial for Ulk1/AMPK association, as a single serine-to-alanine mutation (S758A) at Ulk1 impairs this interaction. Compared to the wild-type ULK1, this Ulk1-S758A mutant initiates starvation-induced autophagy faster at an early time point, but does not alter the maximum capacity of autophagy when starvation prolongs. This study therefore revealed previously unnoticed acute autophagy response to environmental changes.

Full study here

 

[Dago]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

you mean like when you refused to read the articles posted by SaintsinBucLand? a little hypocritical, no?

(PDF) The effect of fasting or calorie restriction on mitophagy induction: a literature review

PDF | Mitochondrial dysfunction can be a major cause of a wide range of age‐related diseases. Maintaining the normal homeostasis of mitochondria... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Current evidence
overwhelmingly suggests that CR and fasting induce
mitophagy and mitophagy‐related markers. Based on the cur-
rent evidence that we reviewed here, it could be concluded
that fasting or CR has a promising role as a novel, practical ap-
proach without any side effects in the regulation of health by
inducing mitochondria autophagy in different organs of body.

 

[gboudx]

The Science of Fasting

Happened upon this documentary and have worked my way up to being able to fast for 2-3 days out of the week. Initially, it was difficult to get past those 'hunger pangs', but that gets easier as you learn to just fill yourself with water until they go away.I do see the higher energy, better...

saintsreport.com

 

[DaveXA]

The Science of Fasting

Happened upon this documentary and have worked my way up to being able to fast for 2-3 days out of the week. Initially, it was difficult to get past those 'hunger pangs', but that gets easier as you learn to just fill yourself with water until they go away.I do see the higher energy, better...

saintsreport.com

Yeah, I'd say it's gone from fasting/Covid to just a fasting debate. Kind of in the weeds now, so take the debate there at this point.

 

[Arathrael]

The Science of Fasting

Happened upon this documentary and have worked my way up to being able to fast for 2-3 days out of the week. Initially, it was difficult to get past those 'hunger pangs', but that gets easier as you learn to just fill yourself with water until they go away.I do see the higher energy, better...

saintsreport.com

I'm more than happy for the fasting fanatics to take it to the fasting thread.

I'm only replying here so anyone reading this thread knows that while some people think fasting has helped them, other people have found that fasting can worsen the symptoms of long Covid, that there's no sound basis for thinking it's necessary for treating it, and as an approach it should be considered with caution and informed medical advice accordingly.

 

[Arathrael]

you mean like when you refused to read the articles posted by SaintsinBucLand? a little hypocritical, no?

I did read them. I said I wasn't going to go into them, because they weren't actually relevant to the discussion.

And I don't appreciate the repeated passive aggressive attacks coming from you, someone who didn't even read their own links and thought the research for the 2016 Nobel Prize was carried out after 2014 despite their own link to the press release making it clear it was for research done in the nineties.

(PDF) The effect of fasting or calorie restriction on mitophagy induction: a literature review

PDF | Mitochondrial dysfunction can be a major cause of a wide range of age‐related diseases. Maintaining the normal homeostasis of mitochondria... | Find, read and cite all the research you need on ResearchGate

www.researchgate.net

Current evidence
overwhelmingly suggests that CR and fasting induce
mitophagy and mitophagy‐related markers. Based on the cur-
rent evidence that we reviewed here, it could be concluded
that fasting or CR has a promising role as a novel, practical ap-
proach without any side effects in the regulation of health by
inducing mitochondria autophagy in different organs of body.

Stop cherry picking and actually read your own link, which also states that snacking doesn't prevent autophagy, which was your claim.

However, some studies demonstrated that mitophagy occurred both in fasting and fed state with no significant differences or may be induced in fed state. Study on the muscle tissue of subjects after exercise showed that mitophagy was upregulated in the fed state.​

​

No amount of frantic googling and shifting goalposts is going to change that. Knock it off already.

 

[Dago]

I did read them. I said I wasn't going to go into them, because they weren't actually relevant to the discussion.

And I don't appreciate the repeated passive aggressive attacks coming from you, someone who didn't even read their own links and thought the research for the 2016 Nobel Prize was carried out after 2014 despite their own link to the press release making it clear it was for research done in the nineties.


Stop cherry picking and actually read your own link, which also states that snacking doesn't prevent autophagy, which was your claim.

However, some studies demonstrated that mitophagy occurred both in fasting and fed state with no significant differences or may be induced in fed state. Study on the muscle tissue of subjects after exercise showed that mitophagy was upregulated in the fed state.​

​

No amount of frantic googling and shifting goalposts is going to change that. Knock it off already.

No I said that anything that causes your body to produce insulin or mTOR stops autophogy. The sad part is the biological process I described is in your article and you are too busy acting smug and superior to connect the dots. Does eating affect insulin and mTOR production...yes or no? The answer is yes. Does the presence of insulin and mTOR inhibit autophogy (any autophagy)? Yes

Therefore the two are connected.

 

[Arathrael]

No I said that anything that causes your body to produce insulin or mTOR stops autophogy. The sad part is the biological process I described is in your article and you are too busy acting smug and superior to connect the dots. Does eating affect insulin and mTOR production...yes or no? The answer is yes. Does the presence of insulin and mTOR inhibit autophogy (any autophagy)? Yes

Therefore the two are connected.

Again with the pointless personal attacks.

Look, this is a forum. Anyone can see what you actually said. Here:

the traditional 3 meals and snacks prevents autophagy

This is wrong. It does not. Because starvation-independent autophagy is not prevented by the "traditional 3 meals and snacks". Obviously. Full stop, nothing further to discuss.

I don't know why anyone would be so offended by the notion that while fasting may be beneficial to some individuals for some conditions in some circumstances, other people have found it makes their conditions worse, which includes people with long Covid. Or by the fact that mitophagy occurs without fasting, meaning that fasting is not essential for it to take place.

But spending page after page after page repeatedly attacking me while simultaneously refusing to actually read what I post is not going to change any of that. It's just wasting time and probably annoying anyone trying to read this thread for Covid information.

So, again, knock it off. PM me if you have to. Just give it a forking rest already.

 

[Dago]

Again with the pointless personal attacks.

Look, this is a forum. Anyone can see what you actually said. Here:


This is wrong. It does not. Because starvation-independent autophagy is not prevented by the "traditional 3 meals and snacks". Obviously. Full stop, nothing further to discuss.

I don't know why anyone would be so offended by the notion that while fasting may be beneficial to some individuals for some conditions in some circumstances, other people have found it makes their conditions worse, which includes people with long Covid. Or by the fact that mitophagy occurs without fasting, meaning that fasting is not essential for it to take place.

But spending page after page after page repeatedly attacking me while simultaneously refusing to actually read what I post is not going to change any of that. It's just wasting time and probably annoying anyone trying to read this thread for Covid information.

So, again, knock it off. PM me if you have to. Just give it a forking rest already.

So stop posting lmao

You act like you aren't keeping this alive

If you can't disprove the effects of insulin and mTOR on autophogy, then it is you who is refusing to stay relevant. Nothing you have posted has addressed the effect of insulin and mTOR on autophogy.

So unless you can prove that insulin and mTOR have no effect or that eating food doesn't cause the body to produce insulin or mTOR you are wrong.

If you don't want this to continue, answer that issue or just stop posting. It's that simple. But for you to keep posting while blaming others for posting is just childish

 

[Arathrael]

So stop posting lmao

You act like you aren't keeping this alive

If you can't disprove the effects of insulin and mTOR on autophogy, then it is you who is refusing to stay relevant. Nothing you have posted has addressed the effect of insulin and mTOR on autophogy.

So unless you can prove that insulin and mTOR have no effect or that eating food doesn't cause the body to produce insulin or mTOR you are wrong.

You claimed that eating three meals and snacks prevents autophagy. The reality of starvation-independent autophagy and mitophagy occurring in the fed state - as supported by multiple citations including your own - shows that to be false. Hence, fasting is not necessary for mitophagy to occur, which will still occur when eating three meals and snacks.

Hence, an argument that fasting would "absolutely" be beneficial for long Covid because autophagy wouldn't occur otherwise is false.

That's the issue. It's been addressed. Repeatedly.

As for your newfound obsession with insulin and mTOR, I'm sure you're not daft enough to be claiming that being fed prevents something that occurs when fed, so it has literally no bearing on the above. You don't need to understand why it still occurs. You just need to know that it does.

If you don't want this to continue, answer that issue or just stop posting. It's that simple. But for you to keep posting while blaming others for posting is just childish

I'm naturally going to respond to misrepresentations of what I've said, for example, your assertion that I haven't addressed the pertinent issue. I'm also not a fan of misinformation.

The problem there is the posting of those, not the responding. So again, I'd suggest knocking it off.

 

[Dago]

You claimed that eating three meals and snacks prevents autophagy. The reality of starvation-independent autophagy and mitophagy occurring in the fed state - as supported by multiple citations including your own - shows that to be false. Hence, fasting is not necessary for mitophagy to occur, which will still occur when eating three meals and snacks.

Hence, an argument that fasting would "absolutely" be beneficial for long Covid because autophagy wouldn't occur otherwise is false.

That's the issue. It's been addressed. Repeatedly.

As for your newfound obsession with insulin and mTOR, I'm sure you're not daft enough to be claiming that being fed prevents something that occurs when fed, so it has literally no bearing on the above. You don't need to understand why it still occurs. You just need to know that it does.


I'm naturally going to respond to misrepresentations of what I've said, for example, your assertion that I haven't addressed the pertinent issue. I'm also not a fan of misinformation.

The problem there is the posting of those, not the responding. So again, I'd suggest knocking it off.

We both know you looked and found I was correct about the insulin and mTOR....you would have posted it had you found otherwise

It's ok to admit it

 

[Dago]

@Dago I doubt you largely ignoring what I've said and both of us consequently repeating ourselves is interesting to anyone at this point. I mean, I'll give it one more go, but it's getting ridiculous.

Because if you'd read what I've already said and linked to, you'd understand your assertion is wrong because there are forms of autophagy that are starvation-independent. Repeatedly describing starvation-dependent autophagy in a limited way doesn't get either of us anywhere. I already know what it is. The problem is you don't seem to understand there's more to autophagy than that.

Look. Here's two more links for you (both more recent than the nineties):

Frontiers | Mitophagy in Antiviral Immunity

Mitochondria are important organelles whose primary function is energy production; in addition, they serve as signaling platforms for apoptosis and antiviral...

www.frontiersin.org

Mechanisms of Selective Autophagy - PMC

Selective autophagy contributes to intracellular homeostasis by mediating the degradation of cytoplasmic material such as aggregated proteins, damaged or over-abundant organelles, and invading pathogens. The molecular machinery for selective ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Read those. Pay attention to the sections on selective autophagy in non-starved cells. Those forms of autophagy occur regardless of the absence of starvation. Snacking does not prevent them. Fasting is not necessary for them.

And if you're not going to read that, and just repeat yourself, can you not and we'll just say you did?

LMAO I just realized why you don't realize you are wrong. I didn't see it before because frankly I didn't think you would be so ignorant about basic biology. You are making cellular starvation and obstaining from food to be the same thing! OMG LMAO

You don't even understand your own damned article LMAO

Your article is about mitophogy and virus immunity...it literally has nothing to do with what we are talking about and ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with what enables autophogy or mitophogy LMAO

Going without food temporarily is not cellular starvation LMAO

 

[faceman]

Is there a particular reason for oatmeal at the end of the day?

Also, I'd probably sub in orange juice in place of the orange. It's not that I don't like oranges, but would rather drink juice.

Oatmeal is high in insoluable fiber. It doesnt allow the bad LDL cholesterol to stick to the artery and vainel walls. Think of it
as the bodies liquid plumber. Beans do the same as well

Orange juice will give you the daily vitamin c requirements. The pulp from the fruit gives the fiber benefit. The same with
apples. The skin is where the true health benefits are