Are you willing to get the Covid vaccine when offered? (5 Viewers)

[sammymvpknight]

I was previously pre-med, have a degree in biological sciences, worked for about half a decade in academia, and somewhere along the line was registered for Medscape. My browser just signed me in.

I logged in and preformed my search in Medscape and still cannot find such an article:

Again, I have no problem getting the article, so it's probably because you don't have sufficient credentials. I'm not trying to talk down to you...but that is VERY LIKELY the reason you can't read the article I posted. If you are sincerely interested in learning and not just trying to give me crap...I'll be happy to share some details. It's copyrighted material, so I'm not going to be able to give the entire study. It's NOT a clinical trial, it doesn't have the same level of confidence. As with any poll, there are questions of bias.

- Poll was on clinician's confidence surrounding COVID-19 vaccine for kids ages 5-11
- 1269 individuals were polled between November 3-11, 2021.
- Among physicians respondents who have children in that age group, 30% said they would not want their children to be vaccinated; 9% were unsure. 66% of physicians in the cohort were confident that the vaccine was safe in that age range. When asked if COVID-19 vaccine should be added to list of children immunizations, 39% of physicians said yes, 37% said no, and 24% were unsure.
- Among APRNs/nurses, 45% said they did not want their kids to get COVID-19 vaccine; 13% unsure. 52% of nurses/APRN in the cohort were confident that the vaccine was safe in that age range. When asked if COVID-19 vaccine should be added to list of children immunizations, 25% of nurses/APRN said yes, 52% said no, and 23% were unsure.
- Among pharmacists, 31% said they didn't want their kids to get COVID-19 vaccine; 9% unsure. 66% of pharmacists in the cohort were confident that the vaccine was safe in that age range.
- Women were more confident in the vaccine's safety than men, and younger individuals were more confident in the vaccine's safety than older individuals.
- Knowledge of lower dosage in peds was highest in pharmacists (91%) and lowest in nurses (79%)...physicians were at 84%.

So in response to your observation that pediatricians are kicking people out of their practice over not getting vaccinated...that would be uncommon, and I personally know many pediatricians who think that is patient abandonment and unethical. There are ways to see children who are not vaccinated...if you are that concerned you can see them in the parking lot...I know pediatricians that do it. Also, based on the stats above, a pediatrician would be more likely to recommend vaccination, because the significant majority of pediatricians are women, and that is a cohort that is more likely to recommend vaccination statistically.

If you asked me if the vaccine is safe...that's a tough question. Because "safe" is a relative. Is it safer than getting COVID? That's an answer that I'd be more willing to commit. I'm not sure I'm willing to say that really ANYTHING is "safe" in medicine because I've seen people get sick from just about every medical intervention in existence. This is a high stakes game that we play...and there are always risks/benefits.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I'm curious Dr SammyMVPknight what type of medicine do you practice?

There are some things I'm willing to put out there...and that is certainly not one of them. People already know that I'm a physician from Jacksonville...that's PLENTY

 

[sammymvpknight]

I pretty much consider all anonymous, COVID-related surveys gamed. VAERS? Gamed. Online surveys of medical doctors, academic PhDs, etc.? Gamed.

Medscape is very legitimate. You just don't like what they have to say here.

If you have read medscape articles...you'd know that it's incredibly professional and essentially all of their COVID related articles recently have been very favorable toward the vaccine. Heck...read their front page. Here are their headlines: "J&J Booster Reduces Hospitalizations in South Africa, Studies Show", "COVID Vaccine Rarely Lead to Serious Problems in Ages 5-11: CDC". You'd actually have to look REALLY hard to find something remotely anti-vaccine.

 

[Arathrael]

Medscape is very legitimate. You just don't like what they have to say here.

I'm sure the site is legitimate, but it's accurate to observe that this article in particular is based on an online poll with self-selecting participants. It's just not a great way of doing a poll. That doesn't mean that broad observations can't be made from it, e.g. that some physicians are vaccine-hesitant with regard to this vaccine and 5-11 year olds, but the methodology is completely inadequate to say what proportion that actually is with any confidence at all.

I would regard that kind of poll as inadequate for this purpose, and consider it unprofessional to use it as such.

And it's also accurate to observe that anyone can register for free on medscape, it's not hard to access at all.

 

[SWJJ]

So even though it's not your intention to talk down, your all caps yelling and insistence that "only credentialed doctors" can access medscape are unnecessary. An online poll is not representative of the entire collection of doctors in America, so as a MD you should be careful representing an online poll as some sort of general consensus.

The article title and poll results (it allows me to view) don't seem to paint the same picture and the article author gets called out for "sensationalism" by some MDs in the comments.

I know plenty of doctors. I went to undergrad with a couple of dozen, and I serve on boards with a couple more. My wife works in mental health. I'm not trying to give you a hard time, but the "30% of all doctors refuse to give their own children the vaccine" was a bold (and seemingly inaccurate) proclamation.

I didn't call you a liar, I just said I had a hard time believing that, tried to find it for myself, and couldn't before asking you for a link, which obviously triggered you.

According to the poll results only 11% of doctors (most of which are unvaxed themselves) don't plan to vax their own children:

 

[sammymvpknight]

If 90-95% of doctor were planning to get the vaccine before it was available, and you believe 90-95% of doctors would have gotten the vaccine even if they weren't required to why the LOL?



I'd imagine that there are enough anti-vax doctors out there with access to that poll who'd be shouting off a mountaintop if nearly a third of doctors refused to vaccinate their own children. I just find it a bit odd that those poll results weren't leaked and all over the media

Well...opinions change. The number may have gone up or down...but we don't know because physicians or universally forced to have the vaccine or lose employment, so all we can go off of were the initial polls.

That's not how Medscape conducts their polls. But you are right that there is a risk for bias. But bias works both ways...you have people who are very passionate about this topic on both sides of the aisle. And honestly, I know enough healthcare providers to say that I don't think that the numbers of the study are too far off. As for why news outlets didn't pick it up...it might be because it's restricted access. Again...people are having trouble google ninja'ing there way to the article and I'm literally posting the link to the article. Essentially, the only people who would comment and make the media aware of the poll, are physicians who have Medscape...but very few, if any, would do that. So it's our little secret.

 

[Doug B]

Medscape is very legitimate. You just don't like what they have to say here.

It's a survey -- Medscape is saying nothing unless you mean they fabricated the results. Which I don't think you are saying.

Instead, it's anonymous respondents who are saying something by responding to the survey.

 

[sammymvpknight]

I'm sure the site is legitimate, but it's accurate to observe that this article in particular is based on an online poll with self-selecting participants. It's just not a great way of doing a poll. That doesn't mean that broad observations can't be made from it, e.g. that some physicians are vaccine-hesitant with regard to this vaccine and 5-11 year olds, but the methodology is completely inadequate to say what proportion that actually is with any confidence at all.

I would regard that kind of poll as inadequate for this purpose, and consider it unprofessional to use it as such.

And it's also accurate to observe that anyone can register for free on medscape, it's not hard to access at all.

Again...very passionate people on both sides of this debate. For every antivax physician there is an insanely pathological provax physician...I can guarantee you that. Every poll is has pitfalls...and there is risk for bias. I personally know tons of physicians who are vaccinated, who recommend vaccination in adults, but are hesitant to vaccinate their own children. So...it doesn't seem so outlandish to me. It's probably outlanish for you because you don't agree with the findings, and/or there's a mismatch between what you think physicians think and what they actually think. I can say this much...physicians are skeptics by nature. In many ways the science has to be even stronger for physicians than the general educated population. Also, physicians see the side effects from vaccinations...where as the general population is going off of studies that wash out the low sample sizes of those that get side effects, or they just choose the articles that support their bias. That's the responsibility of physicians as scientists to not care about the politics and the bias...and to make the best possible decisions based on the information in front of them.

 

[SWJJ]

Well...opinions change. The number may have gone up or down...but we don't know because physicians or universally forced to have the vaccine or lose employment, so all we can go off of were the initial polls.

That's not how Medscape conducts their polls. But you are right that there is a risk for bias. But bias works both ways...you have people who are very passionate about this topic on both sides of the aisle. And honestly, I know enough healthcare providers to say that I don't think that the numbers of the study are too far off. As for why news outlets didn't pick it up...it might be because it's restricted access. Again...people are having trouble google ninja'ing there way to the article and I'm literally posting the link to the article. Essentially, the only people who would comment and make the media aware of the poll, are physicians who have Medscape...but very few, if any, would do that. So it's our little secret.

But its not restricted accessed, as already explained in the thread. I read the article and even posted clips of snippets of the article.


This "30% of all Medical Doctors Refuse the Vaccine for their kids" is both not accurate (as best we can tell yet) and a VERY weird hill to die on.

 

[Doug B]

Medscape is very legitimate. You just don't like what they have to say here.

Additionally: It's possible to game a legitimate survey. VAERS, before COVID got political, was likely largely helpful.

 

[sammymvpknight]

It's a survey -- Medscape is saying nothing unless you mean they fabricated the results. Which I don't think you are saying.

Instead, it's anonymous respondents who are saying something by responding to the survey.

My point is that Medscape is about as bias free as you can get. I highly doubt that they either fudge the results or created an unethically produced poll. Their polls are usually pretty good and pretty accurately represent reality. No poll is perfect, but I've been viewing Medscape for well over a decade now...and their polls pretty reliable jive with what you'd expect. I think that the poll has SOME weight. I think that it does at least somewhat accurate reflect reality. Again...Medscape has also posted polls on whether physicians wanted to be vaccinated, and it's 90-95%. If this peds poll was so heavily weight by antivaxer physicians, then why didn't they show up more significantly in the general poll? The reason is because I think that it's probably a somewhat reflection of reality.

 

[sammymvpknight]

Additionally: It's possible to game a legitimate survey. VAERS, before COVID got political, was likely largely helpful.

You can't compare VAERS to Medscape. Literally anyone can get on VAERS and post. You have to have credentials to participate in Medscape polling.

Listen...you can just decide that you don't agree with the poll. That's fine

 

[WhoDatPhan78]

Polls that only measure the people who volunteer to take it are not scientific and should not be used for anything other than entertainment purposes.

I'm not a doctor, but i did take several detailed classes on polling in college, and know that any poll that is open to a large group, but only measures those who volunteer to take the poll isn't really useful.

Sure, you might think that the biases should even out, but that isn't how it usually ends up working in reality.

That Medscape poll might accurately reflect the general population of people was trying to measure, but if it does it is only through coincidence.

 

[DaveXA]

You can't compare VAERS to Medscape. Literally anyone can get on VAERS and post. You have to have credentials to participate in Medscape polling.

Listen...you can just decide that you don't agree with the poll. That's fine

I think it's worth noting, anyone can register to the site, but it seems not just anyone can participate in the polling. At least it seems that way from what I can tell.

 

[SWJJ]

You know what. I'm done. There's probably a good reason you didn't get into med school. You are incapable of thinking. Just do you

Cool beans! I'm appreciative that we could have this discussion without the doctor feeling the need to talk down to anyone.

Please don't use anonymous online surveys as empirical data with diagnosing disease.

For the record, I didn't get into med school because I never applied.