Ukraine (25 Viewers)

[nolaspe]

 

[SamAndreas]

I don't understand the purpose behind these. Why would one make a rocket flamethrower weapon which operates over water?

Water cannot be set on fire, so what does a flamethrower over water do?

Oh I suppose one could approach a coastline with it and then hit broadside of a coastal mountain range. That would certainly shock them.

However I'm not sure it could reliably hit a coastal city, it would be more likely to fly over that and wind up hitting the same broadside of the same mountain I spoke of before.

That would be unless one aimed it to hit the broadside of that mountain, then it would inevitably miss the broadside of that mountain and land short in that city.

 

[Saintman2884]

Milk dispensers are great until you run out of the boxes of milk 3 weeks into a6 month deployment with no unrep scheduled for another month and you have to drink "astronaut" milk until then. Same with real eggs and powdered eggs, you start the deployment having your eggs over easy then it's scrambled from then on.

I know this whole series of exchanges satirical and silly, but the very notion of dairy cows and chickens on any kind of submarine (diesel-powered or nuclear) is funny and amusing to imagine but logistically impossible. My father served in the Navy Reserves in the 1980's, and he found out, was told that while everyday normal life on a nuclear submarine can be be a bit challenging mentally due to the endless monotony, occasional boredom and some few but odd crewmen that develop a clear, nasty case of claustrophobia, and when submariners typically are under water for extended periods of time (like 2 months), tempers and emotions begjn fraying a bit, the food is excellent, outstanding, and first-rate and if your shirt ends like at 2 or 3'oclock AM (not that most could visibly tell since you're underwater), the galley is always open for duty whereas in most small-medium sized American towns and cities, most restaurants and bars are shut down by 11 P.M. or midnight.

 

[Saintman2884]

And yet still, just to show the absurdity, banal asinine reasoning and the overall human cost (so far and this number will rise ultra-expotentially) the Russian Federation forces have lost over in KIA/MIA over 9x more then what we suffered and lost in nearly a decade with military operations in Southeast Asia (not just Vietnam but also Cambodia in 1970) we also lost a few servicemen, IIRC, in the last few days in April 1975 helping to remove and get out last remaining non-essential (and essential personnel, like business CEO's American ex-pats, ambassador Lodge III and his staff, embassy guards, families, a few NGO's, and I think we also pulled a few essential non-American European ambassadors, European civilians, and their staffs.

I could be wrong, but Russia's current death toll in Ukraine might be slightly higher then our entire military casualties during WWII in European, North African and Pacific theaters over 3 1/2 years. The official Soviet military death toll just for the final Battle of Berlin over two weeks in mid-late April 1945 was a little over 200,000 KIA, MIA, or wounded. If one watches quite a few of the old British pre-movie short films depicting WWII victory parades or old Soviet propoganda films in black-and-white, immediately afterwards like summer/fall 1945, you see mostly women taking part and actively engaging in the celebration rituals in Mowcow's Red Square because a good portion of Soviet male population had been killed or too badly wounded during WWII or were stationed elsewhere to be involved.

 

[Saintman2884]

And un-necessarily long winded and condescending.

It was one of many bad, strategic mistakes before and after. If we can admit that and strive to do better next time (which we have so far since 2022), then its not condescending, it's being honest. Some in the West have a difficult time admitting occasionally they made some unwise, stupid tactical geopoliitical decisions in retrospect like way the Suez Canal Crisis initially was handled, The Munich Conference (even if Chamberlain likely suspected Hitler wouldn't abide by it, it did buy British some time to prepare (Hitler afterwards bitterly complained to Georbels at Berghof that the "SOB's didnt give me my war"), the 1884 Berlin Conference which began the European " Scramble for Africa " which post-WWII lead to some messy, nasty guerrila warfare, authoritian/totalitarian dictators like Robert Mugabe, Gaddafi, and targeted assassinations like Patrice Lubamba, and Anwar Sadat.

And you know what really pisses me off, why over the past 25-30 years have successive admininistrations, EU leaders and major European military and political leaders continued to allow Putin to get away with it? Whether it was the Second Chechen War, the brutal, nasty military incursion into Georgia during the forking 2008 Summer Olympics, mind you, Ukraine in 2014 with Crimea and the onset of the Dombas low-level civil war and now, the geocide (and it is geocide thats occuring in Ukraine, right now with Putin's ongoing invasion of Ukraine. I'm sick and tired and I despise we let this situation get this far while not assuming Putin wouldn't stop meddling in Eastern Europe and in our internal, domestic politics.

I'm glad we're finally trying to make a stand to this maternal fornicator, I just wish it had been a lot earlier.

 

[Saintman2884]

If my sources are correct, this has been ramping up for quite some time. I don't think it has been anything too drastic, but base commanders stopped waiving exercise formations and leave is scrutinized more aggressively for at least 1 year now.

Makes sense because even if you don't anticipate going, you still need to be ready.

At this stage, U.S. military readiness, preparedness, combat status might be preparing for a short-term situation breaking out possibly to try and defend Taiwan from a maritime, armed invasion at some point over the next decade. I know China's closely, meticulously taking notes and preparing for alternative invasion or military scenarios which would vastly improve upon Russian involvement in Ukraine plus geographically, Chinese military leaders may possibly believe they can obtain a quicker victory due to Taiwan's small size compared to Ukraine being the size of Texas.

 

[Saintman2884]

Yeah, any Russian ships in those seas would be sunk in short order.

I do think the question needs to be asked on whether China would step into that conflict somehow. My guess is they want no part of it and would probably do some of their own incursions in eastern Russia related to previously disputed territory.

Yeah, China hasnt exactly forgiven and forgotten how Tsarist Russia took advantage of their political, social, and economic weaknesses and inability to confront European and Japanese interference in the 1870's and 1880's when Russia forcibly moved into and annexed large parts of Eastern Siberia (completing a process begun by Catherine the Great) and founded the Far Eastern cold-winter port of Vladivostok. Even though Russia, previously the USSR, and China have been "freenemies" since the 1930's, there's still a major amount of hatred, below-surface tension, and Chinese have always felt that the Soviets held this barely-concealed racial and cultural superiority and arrogance over them even 55-60 years ago plus their were some nasty border clashes in 1969-70 that nearly went nuclear and in fact, Soviet U.S. ambassador asked his State Department who we (U.S.) would likely support if a Sino-Soviet border war went nuclear and Nixon ultimately sided with the Chinese (thus the "China card" was created). Ethnic Chinese actually vast outnumber their Russian counterparts in eastern Siberia by 50 or 100-1 population ratios. Both sides are glaringly aware of this imbalance and Chinese are probably gleefully happy that the Russians know they know that, too.

Frankly but stated vulgar manner, Putin knows the Chinese have him by the balls on this issue and more so recently, economically.

 

[Saintman2884]

A hint:

I'm not exactly getting the hint, Sam.

Can you kind of tell me a little more explicitly what "maybe" happened here in a PM? Please, that would be a huge, enormous favor and I very much be in your debt?

Thank you for any consideration, either way.

 

[efil4stnias]

I'm not exactly getting the hint, Sam.

Can you kind of tell me a little more explicitly what "maybe" happened here in a PM? Please, that would be a huge, enormous favor and I very much be in your debt?

Thank you for any consideration, either way.

I'm pretty sure he was referring to the type of helicopter flown by both countries and the terrible coincidence it would be.

 

[Saintman2884]

Another coward.

Does it really surprise you that a former left-wing West German political radical in the Green Party who was known and avowed for his anti-NATO, pro-Soviet, former East German sympathies in the 70's and 80's that the GDR's Volkshalle, and the Stasi named him "a rare, West German bulwark and ally against West German and NATO expansion into Eastern Europe" in the 80's during the Cold War. Shotlz emerged from a very diverse, radical and extremist group of far-left radicals, terrorists like the Red Guards, Beider-Meinhof Gang, LZ, which had branches all over West Germany, Italy, Paris and parts of underground areas in eastern France, the 6th of July Movement which kind of started wave of far left terrorism from the late 60's-1977's "Deutschen Auben-German Autumn", a series of calculated wave of kidnappings, terrorist attacks, high-profile murders and shootouts with the Bundspolizei. Some of their complaints actually had some merit because you see, one generation after WWII, their were still significant elements of West German society, government, culture, politics or admitting or showing true, legitimate remorse amongst most West Germans for starting WWII and the Holocaust were still prescient. Their were quite a few CDU, Free Democrats MP's, politicians that had Nazi ties and people like Axel Springer (Germany's Rupert Murdoch in a way, still owned a disportionate amount of major German newspapers), West Germany was a growing democracy but even by the late 60's had a strong, very conservative materialist society and culture that many " New Left" intellectuals and idealogues and later, radicals didnt appreciate and felt they, (and East Germany) wasnt opening and admitting its deep, dark sins committed in the 1930's and 40's.


The mid-late 60's Western "counterculture" had and shared quite a few of these same anti-establishment criticisms, rebellions, but in West Germany, their cultural and political leaders had 100x more to answer then what their US, British or even French counterparts did, save perhaps the ongoing Vietnam War.

Stoltz sort of emerged from that environment except he never really got his hands dirty or became too closely associated with GDR or Soviet double-agents, foreign intellegence operatives, like Putin did being a handler for wanted West German Red Guard leaders and militants who fled to East Germany in the late 70's as a KGB colonel. All he was ever seen and percieved by Stasi and Soviet officials was a highly "useful idiot". A traitor probably as well as being a coward.

 

[Saintman2884]

He's not wrong, a no fly zone involving us would be the essence of the US entering the war. In for a penny, in for a pound it makes little difference up front, enter a war like this, you're helping to make it into a total war.

What a no fly zone is, is are countries at war fighting for air superiority who don't want to talk about the fact that they are in a war. Once one changes that dynamic by saying "no fly zone" while taking actions of a total war kind in a samaller war, the smaller war will takes on a life of its own and becomes a larger total war if the other side is also world power.

A time an place for it, we can do no fly zones to podunk nations. The US cannot do a "no fly zone" with Russia without it being a kick off for a total war with Russia.

"Atomnyye Bomby" is how one says total war in Russian.

Maybe, but that doesn't change my perception of Sholtz's reputation as a long-term, former Cold War "useful idiot" for East German and Soviet intellegence operators, and officers so much so the Honoeker regime in East Germany outed him as such, essentially in the mid-80's as a young Green Party MP on the far-left. He emerged from that same far-left group of terrorists, militants, idealogues, intellectuals like Beider and Meinhof, Red Army Guards, that were aligned with PLO, Black September
PLO faction in Jordan was, pro-Arab insurgents in Lebanon's civil war in the mid-late 70's, Idi Amin working with West German terrorists at holding Isreali passengers hostage at Entebbe, Uganda, and then there's the 1972 Munich Summer Games series of "incidents" that Spielberg's well-meaning but very incomplete behind-scenes operations movie, Munich, tried to touch on.

 

[SamAndreas]

And yet still, just to show the absurdity, banal asinine reasoning and the overall human cost (so far and this number will rise ultra-expotentially) the Russian Federation forces have lost over in KIA/MIA over 9x more then what we suffered and lost in nearly a decade with military operations in Southeast Asia (not just Vietnam but also Cambodia in 1970) we also lost a few servicemen, IIRC, in the last few days in April 1975 helping to remove and get out last remaining non-essential (and essential personnel, like business CEO's American ex-pats, ambassador Lodge III and his staff, embassy guards, families, a few NGO's, and I think we also pulled a few essential non-American European ambassadors, European civilians, and their staffs.

I could be wrong, but Russia's current death toll in Ukraine might be slightly higher then our entire military casualties during WWII in European, North African and Pacific theaters over 3 1/2 years. The official Soviet military death toll just for the final Battle of Berlin over two weeks in mid-late April 1945 was a little over 200,000 KIA, MIA, or wounded. If one watches quite a few of the old British pre-movie short films depicting WWII victory parades or old Soviet propoganda films in black-and-white, immediately afterwards like summer/fall 1945, you see mostly women taking part and actively engaging in the celebration rituals in Mowcow's Red Square because a good portion of Soviet male population had been killed or too badly wounded during WWII or were stationed elsewhere to be involved.

When making comparisons the rules about that begin with making sure that what you are going to compare is comparable. That's what's wrong with this.

In this case one would compare Russia only with past Soviet Union WWII dead and wounded. Their current losses are not a drop in that ye ole classic bucket yet.

When the Russian losses get to 24 million wake me up.

 

[Saintman2884]

what is so weird is that my youngest was learning about this in World Geo this last quarter ( of semester )

Specifically how the Urals divided Russia and how, as you moved west from the Urals, it got progressively more "European" with respect to everything.

So i was encouraged to do some more reading up on this fact to find out how the Moscovites look upon the Buryats( which are direct decendents of the Mongols ) or Yakuts. They never let go of their caste system from the time of Tsars. Its still rampant.

These are long-running, ethnic-religious tensions and bigotry which have subsisted and permeated Russian society, culture, politics for centuries. It also makes the supposedly bold claims of Lenin, Trotsky, Kinoviev, Beria, Kruschev's claims about a non-racist, classless, future anarcho-communist utopia sort fall flatter and lose even more credibility not just in retrospect but also historically, faster then the Hindenburg blowing up and killing most of its inhabitants due to technical issues and lack of proper helium in a New Jersey airfield.

 

[SamAndreas]

I'm not exactly getting the hint, Sam.

Can you kind of tell me a little more explicitly what "maybe" happened here in a PM? Please, that would be a huge, enormous favor and I very much be in your debt?

Thank you for any consideration, either way.

Saintman, when someone's offering a hint, it's bound to be a situation where they don't want to say the quiet part out loud.

Well, anyway the news has since come out and there's not a quite part aspect about this any more. The fellows in front of that second helicopter which I labeled as a "hint" have all died in that same helicopter you see in that photo.

The what happened next to that photo was they got on to it and flew off to their sudden deaths.

The also what happened next is a significant portion populations of the Earth celebrated one of those guys fiery death. "Good Riddance" is what they tended to say Most of the sayers being from his own country Iran.

 

[Saintman2884]

When making comparisons the rules about that begin with making sure that what you are going to compare is comparable. That's what's wrong with this.

In this case one would compare Russia only with past Soviet Union WWII dead and wounded. Their current losses are not a drop in that ye ole classic bucket yet.

When the Russian losses get to 24 million wake me up.

The Soviets actually lost far less in Afghanistan over a far longer duration (10 years) in a war that very quickly, many top leading Politburo members, including Brezhnev, realized by maybe mid-81, was a bad idea and that Afghanistan's ruling, feeble communist client-state was a failed regime that was pushing radical, atheist land and educational reforms on a very deeply religious Afghan society. The Soviet military, even during its full-strength in early 80's, Sam, never controlled more then 15-20% of the Afghan country side. That was all Mujuhadeen territory. Except for a few major Afghan cities like Kabul and Herat, the Soviet military presence in Afghanistan and effectiveness was limited. It got even worse when in 1986, we began smuggling in Stingers and SAM's via Pakistan's ISI little advanced, smuggling route via the Hindu Kush.

Also, the Soviet death toll in WWII could be justified, though horrific and catastrophic, to the fact that the Soviet Union was invaded and on the s defensive from long-developed racist-paranoid, pan-German expansionism and theories dating back to Volkish idealogues since the late 19th century who first made crude, vague arguments to "Leibenstraum", or " Weltenshuang" and Germany's "natural right" to forcefully expand into Slavic-speaking countries as part of a GrossDeutschland, like UK did with India and France did with Algeria.

The Soviets were being invaded literally for the first time since Napoleonic Wars. Thats not really the case, here at least for some Russians to idiotically accept 2-3 million soldiers KIA, MIA, or wounded. Their will be some little bit of sheet hitting the fan here, Sam.